Songwriters Circle: Chris Janson

11 years ago Liv Carter 2

I often get the question “What do I need to do to make it as a songwriter in Nashville?,” but aside from the very obvious “Write songs”, there is no easy answer. And there is definitely no easy path. In this Songwriters Circle series, every story has been different but there is one thing they all have in common: you have to work very, very hard.

Chris Janson can tell you all about exactly how hard it can be. When he first told me how many hours he spent on stage every day at Tootsie’s, I thought he’d misspoken. The hard work started paying off over the last few years and in 2012 he landed his first cut, Tim McGraw‘s ‘Truck Yeah.’ He is now also working on his debut album with Keith Stegall at Bigger Picture Group, and has just released his first single to country radio, ‘Better I Don’t.’ With the train rolling and picking up speed, let’s go back and look at how it all began.

 

UCN: Do you remember why you started writing songs?
Chris Janson: Yes, I started writing songs because I got a publishing deal.

UCN: Excuse me?
CJ: Yeah. [smiles] I had never thought of writing songs before.

UCN: That’s…definitely an answer I haven’t heard before.
CJ: Well, I got in to music, which isn’t your question I guess.

UCN: Go ahead.
CJ: Well to explain it correctly, I got into music for the music, for playing it. I just thought like every other average listener out there that the artist obviously writes their songs. I thought all the country music singers wrote their own songs, but then I found out that was not the case. Then I started writing songs because I got a publishing deal. Someone said “we’re going to pay you to write songs,” so I started.

UCN: What year was this?
CJ: I’ve been in Nashville seven years, so about six years ago.

UCN: It’s interesting because right now, when I look at my friends, or artists I work with, getting them even just in the door of a publishing company, they already ask how many songs do you already have, who have you been writing with…?
CJ: Oh yeah, it’s so freaking hard. I just got blessed. I got signed to a publishing deal off of singing cover songs. I got signed to a writing deal off of my live performance. It’s pretty crazy.

UCN: That’s actually making me feel good to know that people do that. [smiles] CJ: It’s a pretty rare thing. And now, I’m on my second publishing deal and I have some accomplishments to my name, for which I am very thankful, they’re big blessings. But really, I got singed to my second publishing deal because of my performance. It’s weird…

UCN: So seven years ago when you first got here, what was your impression of the Nashville songwriters and artist community?
CJ: To be honest, my first year in town I played at Tootsies, four shows a day, four hours a piece, every single day for 365 days. I didn’t have any impression of Music Row because I’d never been there before. I had never even been here. [gestures to 12th Ave outside] I’d always be six blocks away downtown, every day, and I didn’t know any different. After my first year I got the first publishing deal, got offered tons of record deals and things just started flying into this crazy spiral, it was this tornado of events. That’s when I was thrown into the music business. How did I take it when I got there? I was like ‘Whoa…’ I was shocked because it was so different from what I thought.

UCN: And what did you think?
CJ: I thought, ‘when does this all get to be about the music?’

UCN: And are you still waiting for that? [smiles] CJ: No, no. [laughs] I finally found an equal balance and I understand it better now. But I was very young and that was my initial impression – when do we get to talk about the music? The music business is so much business, you know. It took me a long time to get that but I dove way into the business side of things, I’ve been through many ups and downs, through many challenges, trials and tests, and I’m finally at a level place in my life to where it is about the music. The business just sort of handles itself. When you have the right team around you, like my publicist, my record label, my wife, my publishing company,… Man, when you have the correct team around you, they take care of whatever business needs to be taken care of, thankfully, and I can just focus completely on the music.

UCN: And you’re with one of my favorite labels right now.
CJ: Thanks.

UCN: And they are about the music. I mean, they know the legal stuff too obviously.
CJ: Yeah, and they built it from the ground up. Starting a label with Zac Brown, nobody thought that would work.

UCN: the very early writes, after they went ‘sign here, you’re now a songwriter, let’s put you in the room with…’, who were those first writers?
CJ: Duff McKagan and Izzy Stradlin.

UCN: Well…yeah, why not? [laughs] CJ: My first couple of songs I wrote were with them. [smiles] There’s a Nashville songwriter, Trey Bruce, who introduced me to them, and he co-published me in that deal and brought me to Chrysalis. It was awesome, it was one hell of an experience, right off the bat.

UCN: And did you feel more excited, or, I don’t want to use the word ‘scared’ because you don’t seem like the guy who gets scared…
CJ: It was just surreal. It was more like ‘Is this really happening right now?’ and I had to go ‘Yep, it’s really happening.’ It was what it was; I was thrown into a wild, crazy tornado.

UCN: Did you feel you had to up your game and meet them at their level, or were you comfortable saying ‘you know what, I’m new at this and I’m OK being new at this’?
CJ: I have felt like that, and it’s a good feeling to have I think. If you feel like that, you’re keeping yourself on your p’s and q’s, you’re really keeping track of yourself. That being my first couple of songs, I think it was the right fit. Guys like Duff, Izzy and Trey, they come from the same school, if you will, that I do, as far as music is concerned. And background too, I guess, just humble beginnings. They’re just legit rock guys, they don’t really care. It’s never been about anything but the music to them.

UCN: Yes, they’re like real musician’s musicians, if that makes sense.
CJ: Yeah, they’re just street hustlers man, and I started out like that; I was a street hustler. So we just connected, it was easy-peasy writing with them.

UCN: How did you start putting it together? Did you first follow their way of writing, or did you fairly quickly find yourself thinking ‘this way of writing works for me’?
CJ: It took several years really. It’s actually taken to the last couple of years to really find out ‘this is how I do it.’ I have been mentored by some of the best, and Trey was the first one who mentored me into that. I’ve been around a ton of songwriters by now, and tons of them have influenced me, especially right here in Nashville. From the beginning it’s always been kind of the way I did it, I just never really honed in on that fact. It’s like you always do it naturally, and then you discover later how you did it. I’d always been doing it my way, I just never realized it.

UCN: One of the first decisions songwriters need to make here is ‘am I going to write to the Music Row template, or am I going to do totally my own thing and hope that it works too?’
CJ: I try to keep an even keel, try to be neutral. I try to keep a balance of both. It’s important to try to evolve with what’s going on, or try to anyway, and it’s important to try to keep yourself sane and keep being yourself in the midst of that. It’s hard but like I said, in the last few years I finally found a balance. I’ve started getting some outside cuts and still continue to write for myself. Now, I got a good record deal and am just in a good place. It just took me some time to hone in on the fact of doing both and keeping it real, you know.

UCN: And when you say ‘do both’ do you mean write the stuff you write because you have to, it has to come out, and then also write from a commercial aspect?
CJ: You’re exactly right, you said it just like I would have. Perfect. [smiles] The things I want to say, or feel like I have to say – which are very few and far between, I mean, those kind of ideas don’t come around that often for me. I look at songwriting like it’s fun and pleasurable, but it’s also my job. I have to take it seriously, and try to play the game like everybody else is playing the game. And you always try to win so you just have to write the best songs possible.

UCN: One of the reasons I started doing these interviews is that most music fans don’t really seem to understand the songwriting aspect of it.
CJ: It’s the backbone of this town.

UCN: Right, so I thought ‘well, let’s uncover the lives of Nashville songwriters.’ It’s about showing people what it’s really like. There are some outlets out there talking about songwriters but it was still a little sanitized, and I thought ‘let’s just get everyone to be really honest,’ and just show how hard you guys have to work, and the tough choices you have to make.
CJ: It’s very touch sometimes…

UCN: The commercial aspect especially. If you’re talented you can write whatever, but it’s deciding: do you go write the super commercial songs and then say ‘well, I made a ton of money but I don’t feel creatively satisfied,’ or do you try to combine it but then make it harder for yourself…
CJ: Here’s the thing, I think it’s just a personal mindset that you have to get into. I know people in different facets of music and some would look at that like “selling out,” and some would look at it like ‘well, who wouldn’t do this?’ And I’m kind of right in the middle. I definitely don’t feel like a sell-out. Ultimately, we’re all trying to make a living here, so call it what you want but we’re making a living, that’s the bottom line. If you’re able to do it, why not?

UCN: I know what you mean. I divide my time between Music Row and the roots music community, and some people in the latter are just too cool and edgy to admit that they need to make money with their music, you know?
CJ: Oh yeah… [smiles] It’s all good, to their credit, but I want my songs to be on the radio. I want my music to be on mainstream country radio. I’m in the country music business, I’m not into the indie roots market, I’m not into hip-hop, I’m not into rock. I’m in country music and that’s what I want to be successful in. And to be successful in country, believe me, you have to work your fucking ass off and you have to write country music. And, strangely, it took me years to figure that out, but once you really decide on that,…

UCN: Once you get it, you get it.
CJ: Yeah, once you get it, you get it. All I had to do was just drop my insecurities and stupid, quote, “coolness,” and just do it. I mean, just write about things I know and stop trying to be somebody else.

UCN: I’ve heard that before from songwriter friends of mine who told me that they just needed to get over that almost snobbery, in a way, where it’s ‘oh no, I’m too much of an artist.’ But then it’s like, ‘no, I can also just write some songs that are just fun,’ you know?
CJ: Oh yeah, it’s totally that, and it’s all crap. I mean, most of us came from fairly poor backgrounds, just normal kids in small towns. When you just start writing about things you know, that’s when natural stuff starts flowing. For me personally at least, that’s how it goes.

UCN: Have you ever on purpose tried to do the really elevated material, and did that work?
CJ: Like try to write something I wouldn’t normally do?

UCN: Yeah, where you’re trying to catch up to someone else’s level, or impress them?
CJ: Yeah, I do that from time to time, but I only do it when it feels natural and right. That happens from time to time, but I strictly just try to do what feels correct. If you just follow your heart, it usually works.

UCN: So it’s kind of about staying out of your own way?
CJ: Yes, especially for a guy like me…

UCN: Well…I’m sure there’s a story there, but I’ll leave that alone for now. [smiles] CJ: [laughs]

UCN: Where do songs tend to come from, the ones you have to write, do you see a pattern in those?
CJ: No, I don’t really see any pattern in my songwriting. I’m writing songs seven days a week so I just get up every day and decide what I want to write about. I also co-write a lot of it. Most of the songs that are for me, or the more in-depth ones, I normally write by myself so they come off a little different sometimes. But for the most part, I love collaborating, I love to hear what those freaking real geniuses think. I’m nowhere near, I’m not a genius, I’m just some dude who’s gotten blessed. But there are a lot of genius songwriters in this town, and I have a collection of them that are my favorites that I like to collaborate with.

UCN: Do you want to name some names?
CJ: Sure! Casey Beathard, Rodney Clawson, Dallas Davidson, Marv Green, Tim Nichols, Pat Bunch, just to name a few… [smiles]

UCN: I’m sure it’s a long list.
CJ: Yeah, I’m leaving out tons but those are just some of my favorites.

UCN: What are some of the key things you’ve learned from them, the do’s and the don’t’s of songwriting for yourself?
CJ: I really just learned…I mean, a ‘don’t’ is don’t hold anything back, don’t think anything is stupid.

UCN: So, in a write, always put your ideas on the table?
CJ: Yes, say what you’re thinking! One man’s trash is another man’s treasure, one man’s stupid idea is another man’s genius idea, you know. You just can’t hide anything.

UCN: Or even if you don’t use that specific line, it can trigger another idea in a co-writer.
CJ: Absolutely. Everybody brings something to the table, especially when you’re co-writing. I may say something that somebody else sees in a completely different way, and that’s the beauty of writing.

UCN: Are you the ideas guy, the lyric guy, the melody guy?
CJ: It depends, day by day. I’m kind of a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to that. I can write songs by myself all day long, whether those be good or bad, but I prefer to write with others because it takes a little bit of the pressure off of just the one person. I like to say I add a little bit of everything, but so do my co-writers, and everyone’s equal at the end of the day.

UCN: Speaking of equal, how did you feel in the earlier writes? Some people told me they were clearly made to feel like the new kid in the room, and then others have said that ‘even if it was my first write with someone like Craig Wiseman, he made me feel like I was on equal footing.’
CJ: I’ll tell you what, I have had the best experiences writing with songwriters, especially in Nashville. I’ve only written with outside guys in L.A., but as far as Nashville scene that I’m involved with, man, I’ve never had a bad experience. I really firmly believe that you set your own precedent for your own respect with people. For whatever reason, I’ve been fortunate enough to be well respected by my co-writers and the people who want to work with me. I’ve always said I don’t want to write with anybody who doesn’t want to write with me. I’ve been very blessed and fortunate that everybody I write with has been a pleasure.

UCN: Do you have certain people you prefer to write certain types of songs with?
CJ: Absolutely. But it still varies. Every day is a new day, and I’ll wake up and see how I feel that day. I also have a lot of writes scheduled, so whoever I have scheduled that day also decides what we try to come up with.

UCN: That Music Row process of schedules 10 am writes, how natural did that feel for you?
CJ: Very natural. When I finally got stuck in and got serious and started doing that over the last couple of years, it’s freaking awesome! I don’t know why I wasn’t doing it the whole seven years I’ve been in town! [smiles] I was wasting a lot of time trying to be the cool guy, you know, the cool artist type, and it’s like, jeez, just drop the bullshit and just get down to work. All my friends were doing that and getting cuts, and that’s what I’m really striving to do and working hard at, I’m really trying. I really just want to be the best I can be, you know. I thought ‘I want to get a BMI award, I want to get a Songwriter of the Year award.’ I want to do that, those were goals of mine. I’m getting a BMI award this November, my first one ever, and I am so excited! It’s a big deal for me!

UCN: It is a big deal! When you think about how many people want to do this, and then how few actually get to make a living out of it, and then from those, how very, very few get to that highest level…
CJ: Yeah, I’m so blessed. I have the best of both worlds, especially at this moment in time, of having a successful and lucrative songwriting career that I am very thankful for, and I also have an artist career. I get to write my own material and I’m also co-writing. It’s just awesome and it’s a great opportunity.

UCN: At this point, which informs which more? Does the performance career inform the writing, or does the songwriting inform the performance career?
CJ: That’s a really great question… I hope it’s 50/50. But I would say that the songs have more influence on the performance side, because the performance side is just what it is. It’s going to be different every time. I mean, the songwriting is going to be different every time too, but if I want to write five uptempo songs for my set, I just go work on five uptempos and then I have five uptempos for my set. So then my performance is going to be built from those five uptempos, you know what I mean? So, really, I’d say it’s 70/30 for the songs compared to the artist side of it…if that makes any sense at all. [smiles]

UCN: Actually it does, and it probably differs depending on your mindset, or if you need to start thinking about writing for your own record.
CJ: Oh yeah, it differs. It’s an emotional chapter in life kind of thing, it’s about where I am in time. Right now, it probably is 50/50. But after my record is out, it will be 100% on the songs because I’ll be focused on that again, but you brought up a good point.

UCN: When there’s a line you’re fighting with, which guy in your head gets the final decision, the performer, because he’s going to have to sing it, or the songwriter, who wants to keep a really cool line?
CJ: Well, here’s the thing, even though I may write them to say one thing, sometimes I get on stage and I change my own words. [smiles] When I play, I play for the crowd. It doesn’t really matter who I am in front of, I just play for the crowd. Sometimes I find myself changing certain words, changing phrasings, just to match the room that I’m in, or the atmosphere. It’s just a constant creative process.

UCN: Has anything that’s been changed on the stage then made it back into the official lyric?
CJ: Yes, I did that in this record a few times.

UCN: Do you also consciously edit your songs?
CJ: No, not really. Most of the time I find that I write something and then just move on to the next one. I found that things are best for me when they just come out, I edit them quickly, or not at all, and then just let them go. Generally, when you’re talking to someone, or in an argument, or whatever is going on, what comes out of your mouth is what you’re thinking. My writing is what I wear on my sleeve.

UCN: I like your writing, and one of the reasons is because it really does feel real and conversational. Like, in ‘When I’m Holding Her’ there a line that says something like ‘I asked her to marry me and to my surprise…’
CJ: ‘To my amazement.’

UCN: Yes, that’s it! And I know that if I was to turn that in for a song critique for one of the writers I work with, most of those people would go ‘Oh, there are too many syllables’ or ‘Oh, it’s the wrong vowel right there.’ I like that you just go, this is what I would say in real life, so this is what goes into the song.
CJ: Dude, thank you for noticing that. See, here’s my thing, and this is why I am a fan of people like Dean Dillon and Bobby Braddock, Hank Cochran, Jamey Johnson, they are not afraid to speak songs. To me, songs are supposed to be stories, not all the time, but in reference to story songs like ‘Holding Her,’ or ‘Better I Don’t’ even, there’s a lot of spoken word in that. It’s a story, it’s me telling you the story to music, that’s what it is. That’s how I’ve seen myself, as a storyteller. Kris Kristofferson, Merle Haggard, those guys are all like that, and they are my songwriting heroes. I’ve molded myself to try to be that way, but it took me a long time to figure out the simplicity of that.

UCN: Keith Urban said something similar a few years ago about his ‘Song for Dad.’ The first two lines are so syllable-heavy, and then the next ones are more to the melody. Someone had told him that it didn’t fit, but he said that it had taken him a long time to realize that if that is the line he would actually say, then that has to be the line in the song, rather than go ‘this is what I would say, and now let’s change that to fit in the song.’
CJ: Exactly. I will quit mid-song if I’m having that trouble, if I’m arguing with myself over it. I’ll just quit that song. Next! [smiles]

UCN: I like that you’re not trying to make it fit too much. A young writer brought me a song that was really good, but an artist had told him that he needed to make the chorus all perfect rhymes. And I’m just thinking ‘please don’t…’
CJ: Well, everybody has their own personal opinion. You’ve heard mine, but if Tim McGraw wants to cut another one of my songs next week and wants to do some editing and make it his own, more power to him. Because, guess what, if I’m cutting someone else’s song and I don’t like it exactly the way it is but I like 75% of it and want to change 25% of it, I’ll ask. And I don’t think anyone should take offense to that.

UCN: I’m a big believer in that the person actually singing it has to be comfortable. If there’s one line McGraw knows he would never say in real life, if he then sings it, me as a listener I am going to pick up on that and it’s not going to sound right.
CJ: Yes, I get that. And it’s also about business. When I said earlier that I had learned the business side of it, that’s where I adapt to the business side of it. Some things are about business, you take your head and your heart out of it for a minute and let it be what it is.

UCN: And speaking of McGraw, you sorta had a kind of a big cut with him this year… [smiles] CJ: Yes, my first one. [smiles]

UCN: When did you find out?
CJ: I found out not even a week after that he was going to cut it. Long story short, I found out that I had double-booked a write that day with LoCash Cowboys and Danny Myrick. I called them each and said ‘My bad, can we all write together?’ and they all went ‘sure,’ so we ended up writing. And really about an hour later we had ‘Truck Yeah,’ and by six o’clock that night, Danny had a work tape of it done in Garage Band on his computer and then into our e-mail inboxes.

UCN: And it all began with just an almost flippant comment about your own truck.
CJ: Yeah, it was the f-word for sure originally, but then Preston [Brust] said ‘No, how about truck yeah?’

UCN: And then it’s ‘let’s get inside right now and write that!’
CJ: Yeah, let’s go write that right now! [smiles]

UCN: Do you remember the feeling after that write? Did it feel like this is a hit, or was it this is just fun and we’ll see where it goes?
CJ: It just totally felt like fun, and then we’ll see where it goes. The song just kind of wrote itself. It was fast. I’d say something, then LoCash would say something, then Danny would say something, and it was just tick-tick-tick and done.

UCN: How did it feel when you then got that phone call?
CJ: I was just so thankful, man, it was a blessing from the Lord. It was unbelievable, I’ll never forget that phone call.

UCN: What did that experience teach you? I don’t know if you paid attention to the charts at all then…
CJ: Nope… [smiles]

UCN: Did it teach you anything about the politics involved in pitching songs, those relationships you need?
CJ: Bottom line, here’s what it taught me. It taught me that you can do anything you set your mind to, for real. You just write songs every single day, as many as you can. It’s just a numbers game. You write, write and write, and bust your ass, and it can happen. That’s what I tried to do, I set myself that mindset at the beginning of that year, and it pretty much took a year to get that cut. I just told myself that I was going to write my ass of that year and going to try to get a cut on someone, and that’s what happened.

UCN: Are you a believer in the idea that if you very clearly keep goals in mind, that everything around you then tends to kind of fold into towards that?
CJ: And then kind of helps you get there naturally? Yes, I am. There’s a major artist who I’ve always wanted a cut with, and I just got that recently.

UCN: Oh, very cool!
CJ: Yeah, it was kind of random. I’ve wanted a cut on him since day one, I’m one of his biggest fans. And now I got it. [smiles]

UCN: Was it specifically for him, was it pitched to him?
CJ: Yes, it sure was.

UCN: To round this off, because you’ve had a pretty unusual way into the business, is there any piece of advice you’d give to new songwriters? Aside from the obvious things like ‘write as much as possible,’ is there one thing you would really wish they take on board?
CJ: This may be obvious too, but the most obvious answer is the truest one. If you’re planning to do this seriously, you have to do it 100%. There is no time for side jobs. You either get with this 100% and barely eat in the beginning, or you don’t do it at all.

UCN: I agree. And Jeffrey Steele‘s phrase for that has been “You can’t be afraid to eat soup.”
CJ: I totally get him on that. If you’re not giving 100%, you might as well not be in the game…because you’re not.

UCN: No safety nets?
CJ: When I moved here, I slept in my car until I had enough money to get an apartment.

UCN: Did you even sleep? You played like what, 16 hours a day?
CJ: Yeah, 10 am until 3 am the next morning, with a five minute break in between sets. Every single day.

UCN: That was crazy…
CJ: Yep… I lost some of my voice, I lost my falsetto, and I was sick for three months.

UCN: Yeah, I can’t even imagine the toll it that took on you. Wow…you rock, dude!
CJ: Thanks! [laughs]

UCN: Thank you so much, this was really interesting!
CJ: Thank you and you’re welcome!

 

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Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

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