Little Rebellion Music

Texas singer-songwriter Kyle Park can speak to songwriting from an interesting perspective. Dividing his time between writing in his hometown of Austin and in Nashville, he has seen the difference and similarities between both scenes. As an independent artist he is also enjoying the freedom of writing when the ideas strike, and has the advantage of road-testing his songs immediately. In this latest Songwriters Circle interview, we explored his path to successful songwriting and looked a little more in-depth at his current single, ‘True Love.’

UCN: Do you remember why you started songwriting?
Kyle Park: Yes, I was 15 and I met this guy called Johnny Lee, who wrote ‘Urban Cowboy’ and ‘Looking for Love.’ I sang with him and he asked me if I wrote my own songs because I had given him a CD with covers. I told him no, that I have tried but was no good at it. He told me that writing is like working out, the more you do it the stronger you get. And it was then that I thought that it made sense to start writing a lot more. I wrote about 100 songs before I felt I started getting good. I felt like I had to write my 100 songs before I could say, ‘okay, I’ve written my 100 songs, I no longer feel like I’m just writing songs and building a catalog, now I want one good song.’ Just the fact of even wanting to write, it came from the challenge of someone saying you think you can’t do it, yes you can. It’s like anything, the more you do it the stronger you get.

UCN: Those very first songs, do you remember what kind of subjects you chose and how you structured them?
KP: The very first song I wrote was about my father which was a personal thing. And after that I mostly wrote love songs because country music is a lot of love songs. And when I was 15 or 16 I wasn’t in love, but I sure thought I knew what love was, so that was the first topic I chose. From then, I’d pick different topics but usually it’s love, love never dies, love never gets old, it’s just a topic everyone can understand. I mean, I could write about baseball or something I’m familiar with, but it wouldn’t reach people the same way that love does.

UCN: When you felt the songs were getting good, what was different about those as opposed to the earlier ones?
KP: Well, I felt like my first songs were okay. But, I don’t know, I could probably say that we still perform now will was about the 25th song I wrote. I don’t know exactly. I think what’s different is that now I write with the intention of cutting a song and not just with the goal of finishing it. And yes, that took about two dozen songs. I mean, now I know what I like, it took a long time to figure out what I like myself, what I wanted to sing myself. Because sometimes you like it when you sing it once, but if you sing it once you might be singing it forever, you know. [smiles]

UCN: Yes, always assume you’re going to be playing it for the rest of your career.
KP: Yes, and it took a while to figure out what I wanted to play, and when I was first writing I remember writing songs with intricate guitar work. It wasn’t just a 1-4-5, it was every chord I knew at the time. I didn’t have a band, I was just playing by myself acoustic and I didn’t want to be bored just sitting there strumming. So I would think of as many things as I could and that helped a lot. Now, I write simpler things because it’s not about me but it’s about what works, what sounds good, and what feels right. I hear songs that I like but there are certain things that don’t feel right for a song. A lot of times I’ll write around the way the music feels, I hardly ever say ‘I have a lyrical idea, let’s put some music to it.’ Usually I sit around playing my guitar and I’ll create a hook and think that sounds cool. I love country music but I also listen to bands like AC/DC and I don’t understand what they’re saying but it feels really good, it makes me feel the right way. It’s not that lyrics aren’t important but lyrical melody and hook are huge factors for me. I’m a hook guy. It’s why I lean more towards popular music than Americana music. To me, Americana is sometimes just one chord droning, where pop has a hook. I’m the kind of guy who wants to learn the hook and then when the song comes on I’ll hum along with the hook. I’ll be listening for what’s the bass beat doing, what’s the snare beat doing. I love all that.

UCN: How did you start editing your songs? When you say you wrote songs just the finished them that’s one thing, because then you can go ‘I need another three lines for this verse, there they are, done.’
KP: Never!

UCN: And you now go I need it to be good? How much editing do you do?
KP: A buddy of mine told me that Radney Foster told him that the most important part of writing is rewriting. I did not believe that for a long time. Roger Miller wrote ‘King of the Road’ in like 15 minutes. My single right now, ‘True Love,’ I wrote three years ago and then the day of recording, I wrote a new chorus and a new bridge, because I didn’t like it. [laughs] I remember thinking ‘we have time for one more song, what do I have?’ And I said ‘I have an idea, give me 30 minutes. I’ll go outside and rewrite this song that I’ve got.’ I had been thinking about the song for three years, something about it stuck with me. I sometime thought ‘I would love to do this song but I don’t like the chorus.’ I rewrote some of the melody and hook, but it took another three months to write the words. I wrote the words the day we cut the vocals. It wasn’t that I had procrastinated, it’s just that they didn’t come until the morning I went in to do vocals. Then it all came out and felt really good. That’s a big part of why it’s a single. There’s a reason why everything fell into place. As a writer my favorite song is always my newest song so in a way, even though it was three years old, it was my newest song because I only just finished it. It’s still got stuck in my head now after six months.

UCN: You were born and raised in Austin, TX. Is it a blessing to be around all that talent, or curse where if you say you’re from Austin people immediately have certain expectations?
KP: Austin is becoming one of the music capitals of the world, and it doesn’t make it easier for musicians. It kind of makes it harder because every door gets knocked on ten times a day by different band. I think being in Texas is a blessing when you’re in music because I grew up not wanting to be a Texas country artist. I grew up listening to the Nashville artists. But I can say independent and make money on my own, playing just in this one area, yeah, that’s a blessing. Because I went from an all-or-nothing type attitude coming to Nashville, where I thought you come here and if it doesn’t work you go home and do nothing, or you make it and become a star. But then by the time I was 18, I realized there’s a new option of just staying in town, and driving to the same markets like San Antonio, College Station, or Fort Worth. And it still costs money, but I could fund it myself and it was all done by the organization I created, and not because of some label that invested in me. It still took about three or four years to make money, of playing 100 shows a year until I could bust that cap where my guarantee was $1000 a night. It took three or four years and two albums.

UCN: You’ve been writing here in town too, with people like George Ducas and Trent Willmon.
KP: Yeah!

UCN: Did you initially come here to write?
KP: I did actually, my first trip was about two years ago.

UCN: And what was your first impression of the Nashville songwriters community?
KP: The guys I was writing with at the time, I knew already before I got here so it wasn’t like I was walking into a scary place at all. My manager John knows a lot of people through his work with George Strait. Coming here to write wasn’t the big scary thing, it wasn’t anything different than writing in Texas in my opinion. I don’t want to use the word “forced,” because I drove to get here, so I can’t really go ‘well, I’m not feeling good today.’ You’re working. But it was fun.

UCN: Does it feel different than Austin in what they’re looking for or expecting from you?
KP: The last two years, the people I’ve written with know what I was doing before, so I felt they always came to the table looking to write a song for me, rather than say, the next Luke Bryan single. I’ve never really written for someone else. I don’t tend to think ‘what does my band need right now’ but how do I feel right now. I love writing so much that to be forced to write is scariest thing in the world.

UCN: So did you do any of those 10 am scheduled writes?
KP: No, I would feel like a robot. [smiles] I’ve written with guys at Sony, but if it was uncomfortable to me I wouldn’t do it, because as far as writing a song and feeling good goes, being comfortable is number one. I’m sure it’s the next step for me and I’ll do it. But writing is a personal thing and I’m not sure about writing with people I don’t know and sharing personal experiences. I think my best songs I’ve co-writing have come from people who understand me and know me.

UCN: Well, there is a kind of code between songwriters here so what gets said in the room, stays in the room. [smiles] KP: I’ve not experienced that, really digging deep with somebody you don’t know. I have written songs with people I met that day, and they were pretty good songs. Mostly it takes comfort for me to write a really good song. I mean, I could finish something, you and I could write a song right now and we could finish it but… Not that we couldn’t do it, I’m sure we could. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be good… Smiles

UCN: Oh, of course, please. [laughs] But sometimes it seems writing with someone you don’t know makes it easier where you can think that person doesn’t really know me, so it doesn’t really matter if I share personal stories.
KP: I guess that’s true. If we can find something we can relate on, like ‘hey, how was college for you,’ and then we start talking about college and then end up writing a party song. I guess that can happen. I also met people where I feel like I’ve known them my whole life just the first moment meeting them. But it’s all about how it feels. I also have friends that I’ve known for years that I would never write a song with. I just know it wouldn’t work because I don’t feel the same way they do about music maybe, or lyrics.

UCN: One of the things I’ve really been impressed by seeing from the people on Music Row is the discipline of writing. You’ve already touched on it a little before when you talked about being forced to write, so is a publishing deal something you would consider?
KP: Yes, one of the first things we did when we got here besides writing, was talking to publishers. It’s part of the game, it’s why we’re here. The main reason I haven’t done it, not that I won’t do it, is that I don’t want it to be a job where it’s forced. I sometimes go two or three months without writing a song and then it’ll hit me and I’ll have four or five songs in a week, like I did last week. For someone to say, ‘listen, you have to turn a song in this month to get your draw, to get your money’ I don’t know if I could do that. It’s like, as much as I love singing, there are certain times I don’t want to do it. I feel like writing is the last thing I have left musically that’s on my terms. Music is such a heartfelt thing for me and I would hate to mess that up. There are people here who told me that there are publishing deals where they don’t pay you a draw, they just pay you when you turn in songs. Part of me thinks that’s great because there’s no commitment involved. I don’t have to turn in something every month just because you’re making me. For me I want to say, trust me you will get your twelve songs but you might get them all in two months.

UCN: But under a deal like that there would also be no commitment involved from their end.
KP: You’re exactly right. But then here I am with no publishing deal. [laughs]

UCN: Not yet. [smiles] How do you filter song ideas?
KP: I don’t, I don’t have a filter at all. [laughs]

UCN: Really? [smiles] KP: Kind of joking. [smiles]

UCN: Writers have told me that if they have any idea they will try to write it, because you never know what might come of it.
KP: I don’t write just whatever, but most of the time I write around hooks and melody and not the lyric idea. I have a list of just one-liners, maybe a title or a hook. So I have those ideas, but it has to feel right. I don’t think I would write something just to write it and think ‘well, what if this works, and let’s write a song about the circus and dancing chickens. I wouldn’t do it.

UCN: Well…now I kind of want to hear that, that song about dancing chickens. [laughs] KP: The future of music just scares me. [laughs]

UCN: Where do the ideas you choose to write then usually come from?
KP: Conversations, experiences. It tends to not be just one thing. Sometimes I’ll hear someone say something and I’ll just stop and write it down.

UCN: So your friends know that about quarter of what they say will end up in a song. [smiles] KP: [laughs] Yes, be careful what you say or I will steal it. I think ideas mostly come from experience.

UCN: Do you also then look at characters in movies and use their stories?
KP: Absolutely, and TV. I wrote a song about Seinfeld one time. [smiles]

UCN: Really? Laughs
KP: Yes, it’s an episode where George gets handcuffed to a bed, and I wrote a song about that. I cut it too, but I don’t sing it anymore. It was called ‘Having a Bad Day.’ I also have a song inspired by the movie Tombstone. There’s a scene where Curly Bill, the drunk cowboy, is out shooting at the moon. The song isn’t about the movie as much as it is about him. I thought that he would be a good character in a song so I started writing this song about a cowboy being drunk and shooting at the moon.

UCN: Well, just that phrase, ‘shooting at the moon,’ is a great line.
KP: Yes, exactly. So that happens. But most of the time it’s just my experiences. I don’t write a lot of story songs, I’m not a Robert Earl Keen kind of guy. I think a lot of the time I do better with a simple idea and then write around that, and not just have a character and try to write their story.

UCN: But you do have interesting people in your songs, especially the guy in ‘True Love,’ I think he’s a really interesting character.
KP: For sure.

UCN: If you write from experience mainly, how much of you ends up in those songs? Do you try to protect anything of yourself?
KP: That’s a really good question. Part of me wants to say none of me, but that part of me thinks it’s all me.

UCN: I don’t necessarily mean exact experiences but your personality, how much of you is in those characters.
KP: Exactly. Just like I hope Stephen King isn’t as psycho as the characters in his books are, it’s a sense of just writing about a character, not just the sense-of-character but an actual character. If I was this person how would I feel? I think in that sense, it’s a lot me. Like ‘True Love’ for example, the first version was written three years ago about a certain woman, but the new chorus is a different situation but the same story, you know. [smiles] But I didn’t literally told the woman, ‘let’s quit while we’re ahead.’ But it’s about that feeling, how I would feel if I was that person in the song.

UCN: Does writing then ever almost become therapy, where you are creating a character and through that character you are allowing yourself to say things that maybe you wouldn’t say in real life?
KP: Not really, the feeling of writing is therapeutic, but it’s not like ‘now I’ve told my story, now I can sleep better.’

UCN: I know writers who almost on purpose create characters to help them express themselves. One guy told me he’s not an overly romantic guy and he doesn’t know how to say those things, but he said ‘I can create a character in a song and have him say it.’
KP: I think I fall toward that more. I’m not scared of what to say, but I think I fall toward that in the sense that I’ve probably written more harsh things that I’ve said. I’ve also written sappier things that I’ve said. I’ve sang love more than I said love, that’s for sure.

UCN: To get specific about the songs, with ‘True Love,’ the first thing I noticed was the pop influence. And that’s a compliment by the way.
KP: Yeah, it’s got that drive.

UCN: Did you create it like that on purpose?
KP: I think that when I first wrote the song three years ago, I didn’t have that groove in my head, that kick-snare feel. There’s not a lot of cymbal crashes, it’s just a hook, a groove, and the percussion. That’s something else that as I write changes a lot, I used to write thinking ‘how can I write the song to keep myself occupied for 3 1/2 minutes on the guitar by myself.’ Now, I’ll write a song with the kick drum pattern already in mind, with the hook and the lick in mind, with what’s the bass going to be playing. That’s my producer mentality. I can hear everything, not just the chord structure. Three years ago it was more like ‘I want to write a song in E flat, as I’ve never done that before.’ Now I’ll think about how the bridge can breakdown with minor chords, and then how the chorus could come in big. I think about all these elements bouncing around now.

UCN: So do you think about that production while you’re writing?
KP: Yes, I’m a hook guy, lyrical hook, melody hook, everything. I think it’s once again why I fall toward pop more than Americana. My favorite guys in Texas bother me because they don’t have hook sometimes. [smiles] It’s all I want, just give me one hook, so I can hum it in my head. I don’t just want to hear the band jamming in G, that’s just not my thing. I want to hear a hook.

UCN: On the lyrics, I think it took til about the fourth time listening to ‘True Love’ before I thought, ‘this is really harsh.’
KP: Yes, it is. [smiles]

UCN: I know, this poor woman. [smiles] KP: Or man. [smiles]

UCN: Yes, of course, or man. [smiles] I like the contrast between that and the happy melody.
KP: The title is ‘True Love,’ so you would think that song is about falling in love for real.

UCN: I did think it was interesting that it took me about four times to really grasp how harsh the lyrics were. You already talked about rewriting parts of it later, did you feel that harshness as you were writing it, and did you at any point pull it back?
KP: No, I didn’t. That was one of the discussions we had in the studio where people said ‘this song is pretty harsh, are you sure?’ But again, it all comes back to feeling. I lobbied for that song as a single more than any song ever, because I’ve had it stuck in my head for three years and that means something. I guess half the explanation is that if I ignore the lyrics and just the groove and the feel and the progression and the breakdown, I love it. And it’s a happy song.

UCN: Yes, if you would take the karaoke version with the vocals removed, you would think it’s a really happy song.
KP: So you’re saying then I start singing and I ruin everything. [smiles]

UCN: Not at all. [laughs] Because that’s the other thing, you have a very clear, crisp voice. And that’s sort of the third element. It’s the happy music, the fresh sounding voice, and then the harsh words. I like that contrast.
KP: I guess, and I hate being on record saying this…I’m scared. [smiles] The song is not about one woman but it’s about experiences and feelings. The song is a very harsh way of saying how I feel. It’s not literally what I said to someone before, but maybe it’s what I wish I had said, where I have felt that way before. It’s that dark moment where you think ‘man, if she were here right now I would tell her this!’ I couldn’t imagine saying those words to someone in real life, but it’s still true. I think that’s why songs are so fun because you can let out some things you might not have been able to say before.

UCN: And yes, harsh it may be, but at least the guy’s honest. You gotta appreciate that. [smiles] But I think that’s why he’s an interesting character. He’s honest, brutally so. I’m going to keep track and see how it does on the charts, if it connects with people
KP: Yes, it will be interesting. I think people have, whether or not they admit that, they’ve felt this way.

UCN: Yes, even if it is just a fleeting moment, like you said. They didn’t feel that way all the time, even if it’s just that one fleeting moment where you had enough. The song is about that moment.
KP: I think the song could also be for someone who’s currently in a relationship. Where they say I’ve been in this relationship for a month or a year or whatever, and it ain’t working but I don’t know how to say it. So, here’s the song, and here I go. [smiles]

UCN: So kind of like, ‘here’s the song, listen to this. Bye.’
KP: Yes, exactly. [laughs] It’s like where you can’t say it but this song can. It’s a song about what’s already been said and done, but also a song for those folks who aren’t happy. Some folks aren’t good at saying things like that, so it’s a good out for some people.

UCN: I think you might be getting some interesting fan mail. [smiles] KP: Yeah… “Dear Kyle, you ruined my life.” [laughs]

UCN: When I was listening to older songs of yours, like ‘Leaving Stephenville,’ I wonder if they could do as well now. Has Texas radio shifted the same way as Nashville radio has?
KP: I’m not really sure. I don’t really understand where radio is in Texas or here. It’s just about feeling, I think. With ‘Leaving Stephenville,’ that song is really written around three notes that I couldn’t get out of my head. I mean, when you look at lyrical content it’s nothing like ‘True Love,’ it doesn’t hit you in the heart like that but it’s about the feeling. It’s not about the lyric, it’s about the happiness. It’s not a song that makes you think, it’s the opposite actually.

UCN: It makes you feel.
KP: Yeah, ‘True Love’ makes you think, and that song makes you feel. That’s an example of me as a writer where I wrote it around three notes. Three notes! [smiles] In the studio when we cut it, everybody was like ‘man, that song is stuck in my head, why did you do that to me?’ [laughs] But I thought, ‘Yes!’ [smiles] And ‘The Night is Young’ is the same way. I was sitting around the campfire with Tom Shepard and as soon as we said those words we both just looked at each other and went, ‘let’s write it right now.’ When I decide to write something, it’s because of the way it makes me feel.

UCN: Do you want to combine writing in Nashville and Texas?
KP: Do you mean like is there a problem combining Nashville and Texas?

UCN: Yes, there are people who have combined it, but others who got punished for it.
KP: I don’t think I have a long answer, it’s just, yes, it’s no problem. The writers here in Nashville are amazing, and there are great writers in Texas as well. The coolest thing is that there is no wrong way to write a song. No one can tell you that your favorite music is no good, it’s impossible. It’s subjective and if it feels good to you, who’s gonna tell you that it’s bad.

UCN: Exactly! Thank you for your time today!
KP: Thanks for doing this!

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Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.

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