Songwriters Circle: Craig Campbell

13 years ago Liv Carter 1

With his debut album just around the corner, this is the perfect time to talk to Craig Campbell. We met up at Nashville’s Audio Productions on a beautiful sunny afternoon to discuss songwriting.

UCB: The first single ‘Family Man,’ the inspiration for it seems obvious but could you talk about the writing process for that song?
Craig Campbell: A friend of mine, Joel Shewmake, we’ve written a bunch of songs together, he had the idea and it was around the same time that I found out my wife was pregnant with our first baby girl. When he told me the title and the idea behind the song, that was just something I wanted to say; it’s a story I wanted to tell. We started working on it and then we ended up bringing in another guy, Jon Henderson, to help us finish it. That’s one of the older songs on the record and it stood the test of time. It’s one of my favorite songs that I’ve ever written and it was good enough to make the record, and then it was even good enough to be the first single.

UCB: When you say ‘to help us finish it’, did you need that final piece of the puzzle to get the song to where you didn’t want to tweak it anymore?
CC: Yes, kind of. We hit a wall, we didn’t know how to tie some of it together. And Jon, he’s so good at what he does. He came in and said ‘I love this part’ and ‘Why don’t you say this?’ and ‘Why don’t you say that?’ and we were ‘ah, why didn’t we think of that!’ It was just small simple suggestions that made the song what it is.

UCB: Mainly for the lyrics?
CC: Yes.

UCB: I love this line in the song ‘how many times does 17 go into 52.’
CC: I think that was Jon’s.

UCB: A line like that, is that a bolt of inspiration or is that ‘I want to say I am helping with homework but I want a better way’
CC: Exactly. For some reason I’ve had interviews with radio people about that line because they didn’t know what I was talking about. They were saying ‘well, $17,000 maybe into 52 weeks…’

UCB: They didn’t get it?!
CC: No, and I was like ‘as a songwriter you don’t want to come out and just say ‘I’m helping my kid with his homework’, you want to put it into a poetic way of saying it without saying it. So that’s how that came about.

UCB: Your co-writer Joel told me you were determined to put this song out there. Was that immediate; as soon as you wrote it you knew you had something?
CC: We did. I’ve been in Nashville for 8,5 years and I’ve written songs and I’ve had one hold in my whole career and that was it; ‘Family Man.’ Rodney Atkins had it on hold for a while. He was going to record it and now looking back, I’m kinda glad he didn’t. (laughs) One of the guys that brought me into this whole Bigger Picture deal, that was the song. He was like ‘this is it, this is going on the record.’ We didn’t know for sure at the time that it would be the first single because I was a brand new artist, I’d never had a song on the radio and sometimes radio has a problem with ballads.

UCB: Especially as a first single.
CC: Yes, so we were thinking that was what I wanted people to know about me. If you don’t know anything about me, listen to this song and that’s who I am. And that’s what we did.

UCB: Another song inspired by family is ‘My Little Cowboy.’ How did that come about?
CC: You know, I wrote ‘Cowboy’ and ‘Family Man’ about the same time. Up to this point, my mama had four granddaughters. I had a different dad than my brothers and sisters and on my daddy’s side there’s nothing but boys. So I’m thinking the odds are in my favor; I am going to give my mama her first grandson. So I wrote this song. There’s some fiction in that song but then the second verse about playing music in bars and doing it for as long as I have and thinking ‘I may have to give this all up because now it’s not just me, I have a family and I got a kid on the way’, that’s real. We ended up having a girl which is the best thing that ever happened to me but before I found out it was a girl, I wrote this song called ‘My Little Cowboy.’

UCB: There is a lot of humor on the record including the opening track ‘I Bought It’, in which the story has a little twist at the end. Was that intentional or is that the kind of thing that happens as you write?
CC: My co-writers on that song fought me and fought me about that. The hook was ‘I bought it’ and that’s what they wanted it to be. But I said I just don’t feel good about this guy coming across as such a wuss. I don’t want him to be this guy, I want him to stand up and be a man, you know. So I said we gotta spin it and turn it onto the girl. I said I believed this is what we gotta do so they said ok. Then a couple of days later they called and said ‘we’ve been listening to it and you were right’ so that’s how that song came about.

UCB: And speaking of humor – ‘Fish’. It’s hilarious. How did that song develop?
CC: You would need to interview my co-writer Arlos Smith. And if you meet him, you would see…’Fish’ was his idea. We were playing, trying to have a word that didn’t rhyme. We got together several times before we finally finished this song. Every day we went down a road, obviously radio would not play that! We had to keep it in the middle of the road and keep it G-rated. I think we did it, I think we nailed it. It’s one of my biggest songs live and it’s probably going to be the next single.

UCB: That’s great, it will be great for summer.
CC: Oh yeah, perfect.

UCB: There’s humor about serious subjects as well in ‘When I Get It’. You mentioned previously you started writing this as a slow, sad song. How did it transition to what it is now?
CC: I started writing it by myself and it was like (sings) ‘Banker man called…’ Basically this guy is fixing to have his house taken away from him and they’re saying ‘hey man, you’re late with payments’ and the only thing he could say was ‘when I get it you’ll get it, and that’s all you’re getting.’ I hadn’t finished it so I brought it in to a writing session with some friends of mine. They loved the idea but said ‘this has to be an anthem’. This is a sore subject and it’s something people don’t like talking about, you know, being broke and collectors calling wanting their money. So we turned it into an upbeat positive song with some na-na-nas in there so people could sing along and say ‘I’ll pay you when I get the money and that’s all I can tell you.’

UCB: Those kinds of conflicts or disagreements about a song’s treatment, how do you usually resolve those in writing sessions?
CC: If you really, really believe in it, you just stick up for it. It’s such a give-take situation when you’re songwriting. You may not totally understand why someone is so adamant but then if you just live with it for a while and two weeks down the road you still hate it, then you call them and say ‘hey man, I’ve tried to love what we’ve done but I just can’t do it’. Then there’s something to talk about. But if it’s just spur of the moment ‘oh no, that’s terrible’, well, give it some time.

UCB: Is that your usual process? Do you need to live with songs for a while?
CC: Oh yeah. You can walk out of a room thinking you’ve written the next ‘He Stopped Loving Her Today’ and then you listen to it a few times and go ‘this song is terrible, I hope nobody ever hears this.’ And then again, there’s some songs you think ‘oh it’s ok, I’m gonna demo it just for the heck of it.’ Then it comes out of the studio and it almost like ‘aaah, this is a smash!’ You never know.

UCB: What makes that difference? When in the writing session you say ‘this sounds really good’ but then you listen to it again – what is it that you hear? Do you trip over the lyrics, the melody?
CC: The lyrics, the melody, it’s a combination of all kinds of things.

UCB: We talked about the humorous songs but there’s more serious songs as well. Which tend to come easier for you?
CC: It’s just according to what mood you’re in that day. If I want to write a ballad then I write a ballad. And if I’ve had a good day and the sun is shining and you want to talk about how pretty it is outside, then you want to write a positive upbeat song.

UCB: One of my favorites on the record is ‘Makes You Wanna Sang’ because of its unusual chorus. Where did that come from?
CC: Me and the guy who I wrote it with, I was sitting at his house and said ‘you know what, I’m tired of having to worry about what chords to put in a song.’ Country music to me was built on three chords. So I want to write a song that goes (sings) Makes you wanna sang mmm-mm-mm… And he said ‘keep doing that’ and he was messing around and said ‘you’re a genius!’ I said ‘Well, I’m glad you said it’. And he goes ‘no, I think we can write a song about things that make you want to sing, make you want to hum and have that be the chorus.’ (sings) Makes you wanna sang mmm-mm-mm… And that’s what we did.

UCB: When you brought this to the label, did anybody go ‘no, you can’t do that, you should put some words here’?
CC: No. It’s one of those songs that every time I played it for somebody, that’s what they walk away humming.

UCB: Absolutely. After the first time I heard it, later in the evening I realized it was in my head. How does this go over live?
CC: If I have the opportunity to play that song twice for somebody, they get it. It makes more sense to them the second time. The first time they’re like ‘there’s no words to the chorus of that song.’ I’m hoping that when the record comes out, people will hear the songs and then expect the songs I’m singing. You see, right now when I go out and do shows, they’ve only heard one song that I do and that’s ‘Family Man’. Hopefully when the record comes out they will be more receptive to the songs they’ve never heard.

UCB: Another song I really like is ‘You Probably Ain’t’ because it’s just so true. One of my pet peeves is the whole ‘ooh, I’m so country’ attitude in some songs. What was the thinking behind that song?
CC: That’s the one song on the record that me and my producer wrote. Keith Stegall is an amazing songwriter, an amazing producer and he came in one day and said ‘you know I had this idea – if you’ve got to tell me how country you are, you probably ain’t’ and he said ‘I’m just tired of people bragging’. If you’ve got to keep reminding yourself, and you got to convince somebody that what’s what you are, then you probably ain’t. So we wrote a song about what people talk about and how the comparisons are there – ‘I go fishing with a cane pole’. Well, if you are really all what you say you are, then you don’t have to tell nobody; it shows. That’s basically how we wrote it.

UCB: There are certain artists who have those kinds of songs. Do you think you might get into a little bit of trouble with them?
CC: I don’t think so. I think we did well not pointing any fingers. It’s just something we wanted to put down on paper and put music to it. It ended up being a really good song so we wanted to put it on the record too.

UCB: The record doesn’t contain any all-out love ballads. Is that a conscious decision or is that just not the material you tend to write?
CC: Well, there is a song that’s going to be on the deluxe package, which will be available through iTunes, that will have two bonus tracks. There’s a song on there called ‘This Old Guitar’ and that was my attempt at writing a love song. It’s basically (sings) ‘I’ve been known to pick a songs or two, and Lord I sing with all my heart, I’ve been known to sing a song or two, but I pick you over this old guitar’. It’s saying ‘if I’m what you want then I will quite what all I’m doing and focus everything on you’.

UCB: Which I guess was a real moment for you – like you said, you had a family and your career and the question ‘can I do both and which do I put first?’ and then obviously the family would come first.
CC: Yes, if I would have to make that choice.

UCB: Did that song come out of that period in your life?
CC: No, that was more recent. I had the chorus and it was just something I was writing one day. Again it was one of those ‘I just want to write a three-chord country song’ and those words just started coming out so we built that song around that chorus that I already had.

UCB: One song that’s quite touching is ‘That’s Music to Me.’ What was the idea that started that song?
CC: I think I came in one day and I said, you know – my oldest girl was just born, and I remembered her crying for the first time – and I said ‘you know what, that’s the most beautiful song I’ve ever heard.’ And my co-writers were like…

UCB: That’s a song!
CC: (mimics typing) They started typing. It just happened.

UCB: Of all the elements of songwriting, are there any that come easy and any that are harder where you need the co-writer to come in?
CC: I get stuck. If I’m in a room by myself and I’m trying to write a song, then it seems like the melodies start to sound the same. So that’s what bringing in somebody else is good for; to let them take it down a different road melodically or lyrically. I have a hard time being completely creative to the point where I can write a whole song and it being very unique. I lean on my co-writers pretty heavily. There’s songs that I’ve put a couple of lines in and there’s songs that I’ve put three quarters of the lines in. It’s a balance. Some songs I wrote the melody to and there are some songs where I said ‘Y’all need to do this melody because if I do it’s going to sound like this other song.’ So it’s a joint effort.

UCB: Is that a tendency if you have a style to find yourself writing the same song over and over if you don’t have those co-writers stepping in?
CC: Yes, they would just be boring old Craig Campbell songs. (laughs) We gotta make them exciting Craig Campbell songs!

UCB: Miranda Lambert said it seemed to be harder for her to write good country songs being really content in life. Is that something you feel to? Does struggle inspire art?
CC: I haven’t had any real heartache, other than real life tragedy. But as far as love heartache, breaking up, I mean, me and my wife have been together a long time and we’re happy as can be. I agree with her, it’s hard to write about being heartbroken when you’re not. I can write about being happy all day long. I get up in the morning and my coffee is made. That’s happiness. I guess the opposite of that is getting up when your coffee used to be made and it’s not being made anymore. I haven’t experienced that.

UCB: Can you use other people’s experiences? Can you watch a movie or read a book, see a character experience something and then use that?
CC: I do it all the time. A lot of songwriters I know go to movies on a very regular basis to get songwriting ideas.


UCB: That’s interesting. So it’s to dip into those emotions that are in whichever character they’re looking at?
CC: Yeah, or just to get an idea. I can’t say I got the idea from this movie but I was watching this movie the other day and he said my exact words: ‘when I get it you’ll get it.’ It was in The Pursuit of Happyness with Will Smith. I don’t remember seeing that movie and writing it down but subconsciously I probably heard it. We were watching this on TV and he said it and me and my wife both looked at each other and she said ‘did you steal that?’ No, I truly don’t remember doing that.

UCB: There’s a number of co-writers on the album. Is it important for you to write with lots of different people?
CC: I have a very small circle of co-writers. I wrote four songs with Rob Hatch. Now, me and Rob get together but then he’ll bring in somebody. So that’s where the diverse songwriters come from. I write with Rob a a lot, I write with Jason Matthews a lot and I write with Carson Chamberlain. Those guys will then bring in somebody else that I’m not as familiar with. That’s how that happens.

UCB: Is it your preference to write with a few people you really know and trust to write with?
CC: There’s no pressure then. You just go in, sit down and start. Like my buddy Rob, we’ll sit and we’ll start writing and then he’ll get up and cook. Then we sit around and eat and talk about the song. There’s no pressure. But if it’s somebody you don’t know, you’ve never met before, you feel obligated to walk in, sit down and write a song because that’s what you’re there for.

UCB: Has your process changed since you first started writing songs?
CC: Oh yeah! Patience is the biggest thing. I’m not in a hurry. Like I said, you sit down to write with somebody you feel like ‘oh I have to write a song, I gotta impress these people, I want them to think I’m a good songwriter’ So you sit there and try to force something. But one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned writing songs is you gotta let it happen, you can’t make it happen. If you get stuck on a song, instead of writing something that’s not as good, you just need to wait until it comes. So patience is the biggest thing.

UCB: Who are some of the songwriters who have inspired you and what is it about their work that moved you?
CC: Dean Dillon. He’s a great songwriter. Just his poetry and the way he talks about certain things and the furniture he puts in a song is very unique. Anthony Smith. I don’t even know what planet he’s on when he writes because it’s just so crazy. But it’s amazing! Those are a couple of my favorites.

UCB: And it’s the lyrics again that do it?
CC: Lyrics, yes. And Dean’s got a really good melodic tendency about him. He writes a lot of stuff for George Strait so it’s more that real traditional country stuff that I like to hear.

UCB: Best written song ever?
CC: Hmm…there’s a bunch. There’s ‘Pretty Good at Drinking Beer.’ To be so simple – you know, I’m not good at this, I’m not good at that, but I’m good at drinking beer. It’s just simple. Less is more for me. I think the less words you use to say the same thing is good. ‘Pretty Good at Drinking Beer’ is a great song. ‘You’re Gonna Miss This’, the Trace Adkins song was a pretty good song.

UCB: I end most interviews with this question and have got some cool answers to this – what quote or saying motivates you or inspires you day to day?
CC: I don’t think about it every day but it’s very true: the prayer of serenity. It’s to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference. I mean, don’t worry about things you can’t control.

UCB: That’s easy to say but sometimes it’s hard to do.
CC: I feel like I’m getting really good at it. Now it’s just about getting the wife to join in. She worries.

UCB: (laughs) Well, you know, it’s not easy with young kids. How is that balance between family and career going?
CC: It’s great. She was working part-time before I signed my deal and now I’m able to supplement what she was making so she’s able to stay home. She’s also a singer as well so she gets to do her songwriting and sing.

UCB: A duet in the future?
CC: I have no doubt about it. I would love to have her on my record.

UCB: That’d be great. Thank you very much!
CC: Thank you!

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Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

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