UCN Interview – LoCash Cowboys: “If you can feel, you can write songs.”

13 years ago Liv Carter 3

Some artists just intrigue me too much to not want to go find out more about them. At the CRS 2011 conference, I sat down with Chris Lucas and Preston Brust who together are country music duo LoCash Cowboys. While I was not overly impressed with their independently released 2008 album, I knew they had their names on some very good songs, including Keith Urban‘s ‘You Gonna Fly,’ so I jumped at the chance to discuss songwriting with them. We found a quiet table in the Bridge Bar at Nashville’s Renaissance Hotel, and what was supposed to be a quick interview turned into a 45-minute conversation. This time I was most definitely impressed! Their approach to writing left me looking forward to their upcoming album.

Chris and Preston on the art of songwriting…

UCN: …but first, let’s talk about your current single, ‘Keep in Mind.’ It’s doing really well, climbing the charts.
Chris Lucas: ‘Keep in Mind,’ unfortunately we didn’t write that one but God I wish we did! It was written by Jeffrey Steele and Shane Minor. We wrote about 8 or 9 songs for our album and we felt like we still needed another song. We didn’t know what it was going to be. We walked into the studio one day while Shane and Jeff were writing this song and they said ‘You gotta hear this’. It took us by surprise, it took our hearts and we said ‘We gotta have this song’. This speaks to LoCash, this speaks to what we want to say to our parents, what we think about our parents and then for the parents to think about their kids when they leave. We left our home towns to pursue our dreams just like people leave for college and stuff so everybody experiences it. We just had to have this song.

UCN: I know this was meant to be recorded by someone else, so how did you end up cutting it?
Preston Brust: It was on hold by a major artist and we were all going into the studio on the same day. We really wanted to cut this song and we’re sitting in the studio and Jeffrey calls the other studio and says ‘My guys are ready to cut this today. Are you going to hold on to this song for a while or are you going to cut it?’ He wanted to be cool about it, you know, word is bond. And they said ‘We’re going to be thinking about it for a few more weeks.’ And he said ‘If you would graciously let us cut this song, that’d be awesome,’ and it worked out. We got lucky. It’s been a blessing for us from the moment we heard the song, to when we cut it, to knowing it was going to climb the charts the way it is. We just knew. Have that song be part of our album is something we’ll never forget.
CL: We experienced that song with our parents, we experience it every day. Fortunately, I can’t get enough of this song. I’m talking about the lyric in general. There’s not a day that goes by that my mom doesn’t call me or my dad called me. It’s says ‘keep in mind’ every day to me.

UCN: You didn’t write that song but you do write a lot and you also travel a lot. What’s the on-the-road writing like and how does it compare to when you get some time off.
PB: We get a lot of ideas on the road. You see so much of the world and we meet so many people and you see so many little things and then you go ‘Hey, that’s a song!’ It could be something someone said last night at dinner. You’re just always writing something down or making a little mental note. Being on the road puts things in perspective because it’s lonely out there. I mean, we all have each other with the band and our team but you’re still missing a portion of real life. There are the ups that come with being a musician but there are downs…
CL: There’s probably more downs, especially when you’re just getting started. But there’s our guitar player and Preston and I, and we go to the back of the bus and just sit there and write. We’ll go 3 or 4 songs in. Preston and I never stop working. I know a lot of people say ‘When are you going to have some time off?’ but, you know, time off is ok but we love what we do.

UCN: If it doesn’t feel like work, you also don’t feel like you need time off.
CL: Right! We love what we do. Writing a song – being on stage which is obviously our favorite thing to do, but writing a song is next.
PB: We got a publishing deal with Sony ATV here in Nashville so we are songwriters for a living now as well. It’s our job to turn in songs and they need to be good quality, well-crafted songs. We can’t just go ‘Hey, let’s write a song today’ anymore. We really need to think about a few things when we write so we’re giving them the best thing we can give them and it’s not just some ditty.

UCN: Out of all the different parts of songwriting, melody, lyrics, structure,…which ones are easier and which ones are harder for you guys?
CL: The good thing about Preston and me is that I’ll come up with an idea and he’s got a melody going in his head. I call him the melody man, you know. I’ll come up with a lyric and will go ‘Dude, I need your help to rephrase this.’ And sometimes it will be the opposite and I’ll help him with something. To have two people write is pretty cool. A lot of people write on their own and I’m not saying that we couldn’t; we’ve both written songs on our own, but it is easier to have someone with you to help you focus on an idea. But if it’s a good song and it’s ready, and you can re-visit it and it still sticks in your head, you just go with what you feel.

UCN: Is that how you know a song is “done”?
CL: There’s a song called ‘You Got Me’, we wrote it 6 years ago. It’s on our album and it’s one of my favorites. We started this lyric, me with our guitar player and Preston. We sat there and wrote this song that night but Preston took it a couple of months later saying ‘It needs a little bridge’. Then he called me saying ‘I want you to hear this’ and he did this little bridge part and I went ‘It’s in!’
PB: Lefty and I, the guy we wrote it with, were sitting in his house and we were working on a different song. We were working on ‘Yeah Yeah’, and it got late and I feel asleep on his couch. I will never forget I woke up and Lefty was asleep with the guitar on his chest. I sat up and I went (sings) Baby, close your eyes… There was no thinking about it. I have no idea how we wrote that right there on the spot. You don’t know when that moment is going to come. I mean, we were working on a totally different song and all of a sudden it just comes out.
CL: For a song we thought was done! He called me up and said ‘Chris, you gotta hear this and add it to it’ and I’m like ‘Done!’
PB: It’s so strange how that comes out sometimes like that, unexpectedly.

UCN: James Taylor says that songs “happen” to him and that when he writes them down it’s not like he’s writing them but more like he’s remembering them.
CL: Yeah, that’s exactly how it is! We had a lot of good stuff happen and some tragedies happen and unfortunately when tragedies happen it’s easier to write because you’re remembering everything. My father passed away a little while ago and I’ve written about 5 or 6 songs and it’s helping me. I invited Preston in on one of them I really wanted him to be on because he knew my father and we wrote this song called ‘Tonight I’ll Drink Alone’. It’s a depressing song but it’s the feelings I’m having. He said ‘Sit back and let out everything’ and I just started talking and telling him what I missed, how the world’s different to me now.
PB: The one thing I remember most about that song was that everybody was trying to dance around the facts and try to make it a song that everyone could relate to through universal lyrics. But one thing that Steeley has really taught us is to stop doing that and to make it about you, to use the words that describe you, and, then everyone else, if it’s honest, will relate to that. On that particular song, we began to take certain scenes or certain things Chris was saying and going ‘You know what, let’s put the actual drink that he drank in the song. Let’s put the actual place that he sat in the song.’ Who cares if somebody else doesn’t sit in that chair the same way he sat in that chair, or walked the same sidewalk that he walked in the same park? Let’s just write it and be honest. I think that’s the biggest thing I’ve learned about songwriting over the last few years – the importance of honesty. The more we do that, the more people relate to what we’re doing now. We wrote a song called ‘January’ about losing someone in January. Everyone loses important people in their lives and they obviously don’t all lose them in January. But they hear our message and our emotion in our song and someone told me ‘You know, September is my January.’ Now I’m really starting to get this. We don’t have to try to make it so commercial. Just lay it out there and say ‘here’s us.’

UCN: That’s interesting because one of the things I look for as a reviewer is those details. Those turn the characters in songs into real people.
PB: We got caught up in that for years, you know. How can we make this universal? And I almost run from that now, I don’t want to write a song like that anymore. It’s just one of those things you evolve with as a musician and as a writer.

UCN: You mentioned, Chris, you felt you had to write because of what you are going through. Miranda Lambert said it’s harder for her to write being really content in life. Is that similar for you? When you’re having a good time you just want to have a good time, you don’t want to sit there and write about it?
CL: Well, we are content with our lives but tragedy happens every day. The cool thing about songwriting is that you can also be someone that you’re not. You can put yourself in someone else’s shoes. If you can feel exactly what they’re feeling, you can put yourself in that situation and say ‘ok, that hasn’t happened to me but, if it did, what would I feel, what would I say?’ We love writing, it’s fun to us. If a lot of tragedy hasn’t happened in your life, ok, it might be a little bit harder for you, but I don’t think we’ll ever stop writing.
PB: You don’t have to write about tragedy. Tragic events obviously spur emotion but so does feeling good. That’s one of the things we’re known for, songs that make you feel good. ‘You Got Me’ is a perfect example, and ‘You Gonna Fly’ is another example of encouragement.
CL: Encouragement songs are great!
PB: Just like Keith [Urban] said about our song ‘You Gonna Fly’, it’s a poor boy romance. It’s the perfect little story. I remember that line had been with me for a really long time (sings) One, two, three baby, don’t think twice… That little lyric had been there forever but it just didn’t really have a place to live yet. And when we started to put it all together, you start running through the Rolodex of different ideas you’ve had and it starts to be part of a puzzle. And we didn’t know we were writing a song for Keith Urban that day; we were just writing a song. That’s the coolest thing about it. I’m beginning to think that if we knew we were writing for Keith we would have just fallen on our face! (laughs)
CL: If you think too hard, that’s where the problem comes in. Just say what you want to say!

UCN: Now that you have a publishing deal, do you ever write with specific artists in mind?
CL: I don’t think either of us have ever done that.
PB: I did, the other day.
CL: Oh, you did?
PB: I have to be honest, I did the other day and I wanted to put everything into this song and be the best song I could write. I had heard Luke Bryan was going in the studio and I heard he needed a couple more songs and I wrote this song called ‘Trucks.’ I thought for sure Luke was going to cut this sucker! But then Chris heard it…
CL: I ain’t letting him! (laughs) I am not letting him have it.
PB: That’s the last time I’ll try to write for somebody else, man. (laughs) I wanted Luke Bryan to cut this song so bad and Chris is like ‘No, it ain’t happening!’

UCN: Your live shows are much talked about. Do you think it’s possible to build that kind of connection if you’re not singing your own material?
CL: I can say ‘yes’ because I’ve seen it done. Garth Brooks. If you can feel the song – just like us with ‘Keep in Mind’ – if you can feel that song as much as the songwriter appreciates it and he wrote it for that reason… Garth is one of the best at doing that, at making you feel like he’s singing to you even though he didn’t write that song. I think it is possible if you have that x factor and you can do it. It is possible. Though, it is easier when you did write the song, it does come out and portrays itself a lot easier for an artist but I can say it’s definitely been done. It can be done if you have the right artist.

UCN: You already mentioned Jeffrey but who are some of the other songwriters who really inspire you and what is it about their work that you are attracted to?
CL: I’d say Keith Urban. The boy can write! He’s fantastic. His melodies are great.
PB: I’m a Tony Lane junkie. I’m hooked on him. I would tell Sony ATV that we’re looking for more songs and they’ll ask what kind of songs, even though we’re not really looking. Then I’ll say ‘Tony Lane songs’ and then they’ll burn me a CD of all of Tony Lane’s new stuff and then I get to listen to them. (laughs) So I get a new Tony Lane CD every once in a while and it’s got 10 or 11 songs on it. I don’t know what it is about him that just strikes a chord with me but it’s probably one of my favorites. Babyface is my other favorite.
CL: Babyface is a fantastic songwriter!
PB: Babyface, Tony Lane… Jeffrey Steele is #1 with us obviously.
CL: Rivers Rutherford. I mean, there’s so many great songwriters in this town! There’s 40,000 and there’s maybe a 1000 who have hits.

UCN: Best written song ever?
CL: Man… There are so many of them! I’m going to think about this one for a second… I think Jeff’s got one of them. I think ‘My Wish’ is absolutely amazing. One of the best written songs!
PB: I got two that are sitting right up there. One is ‘End of the Road’. Boys II Men recorded it and Babyface wrote it and I love that song.
CL: That was my prom song!
PB: And the other, I love Jeffrey’s ‘What Hurts the Most’. It almost evokes tears to this day when I hear him singing it live. It’s just amazing.
CL: Two days ago, we barely got through our song because it’s hard for me right now, and then Preston goes ‘Jeff, sing ‘What Hurts the Most’!’ and I’m like ‘Oh God, are you kidding me?’ (laughs)
PB: I’ll hear it every chance I can. He always looks at me and goes ‘What do you want to hear?’ and I always say ‘What Hurts the Most’.
CL: It hits you, especially if you lost somebody. It’s just one of those songs.
PB: And to know what Jeff was thinking about when he wrote it and to hear him do it differently then Rascal Flatts did it but – and I’m not saying they don’t feel it because their version is amazing – but when you see Jeffrey do it, it’s another experience.
CL: All songwriters are like that. When you hear Rivers sing some of his stuff, it just hits you like it’s unbelievable. You feel it from them. I’m trying to think of some more songs. I like ‘Summer Wind’, Frank Sinatra… We haven’t written the best song ever written yet. (laughs)

UCN: Good. You don’t want to get there yet because once you do, it’s over!
CL: (laughs) No, we haven’t written it yet.
PB: We just try to write a better song than the last one.
CL: Those songs are like once-in-a-decade songs, you know.
PB: You just try to write a song that’s a little better each time. Maybe you can craft it a little better.

UCN: Do you think you can be taught songwriting or is it a talent you just need to have?
PB: Personally, I have been taught by Jeffrey Steele.
CL: I think you can be lyrically blessed. I’ve met people that have an ability to take what you’re saying and put it into something, and you’re like ‘Holy crap, where did you get that from, going on what I just said?’
PB: I think if you can feel, you can write.

UCN: I like that!
CL: Exactly. That’s a song, right there. (laughs)

UCN: Yes, somebody better be writing this down! I end most interviews with this question and I’ve gotten some great responses. What quote or saying motivates or inspires you day to day?
CL: I have a quote that my dad gave me. He had a plaque above his bathroom, it was written by Jacob Riis, and my dad said ‘You always have to remember this: ‘If you had a hammer hammering away at a rock a hundred times without so much as a crack showing in it, yet at the hundred and first blow it split in two, I know it’s not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before’.

UCN: Oh, that’s fantastic!
CL: I will always remember that…
PB: Mine is simple and always goes back to the same thing – ‘never screw anyone over’. You know, all we’ve got is our word. It’s not so much a phrase as it’s a reminder every day to me. If you never treat anybody that way, they’re never going to have anything to say or try to come back at you. You always know that you’ve been a good person. Never try to treat anyone like that, no matter what the circumstances are. Maybe I’ll find the perfect way to say that someday, I don’t know…

UCN: That would make a good song, that idea.
PB: Yes, and our manager taught me from day one that we’re never going to do that to anybody. He’s a 40-year industry veteran. He’s saying ‘In 20 years, guys, if you follow this little piece of advice you will be the guys people trust and look up to’. We want to be upstanding guys like that!

UCN: I like that a lot. Thank you both for your time!

 

For more on LoCash Cowboys, please visit www.locashcowboys.com

 

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Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

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