Songwriters Circle: Jeremy McComb

12 years ago Liv Carter 1

Singer-songwriter Jeremy McComb has been on my list for one of these interviews since I started the series. The recent release of his new record, Leap and the net will appear, after a long and complete break with songwriting, gave us a good reason to talk at (great) length about the craft. While being signed to record labels or publishing deals, McComb’s career couldn’t seem to rise to the level demanded by his talent. Finding out more about this, and about who he was as a writer as a consequence of all this, was my secondary purpose for this interview.

We met up at a pleasant Nashville coffee house and, while I sipped on the distinctly un-rock ‘n’ roll beverage of chamomile-lemon tea, something quite remarkable happened. Just a few questions in, Jeremy decided to open himself up so completely that it turned into just about the most veracious account of life as a Nashville songwriter. His unaffected candor allowed for a real in-depth conversation in which Nashville writing sessions were described as “like being in an arranged marriage for four hours.”

When the interview has made you sufficiently curious about the album, please visit jeremymccomb.com to pick up your copy. The final bonus track all by itself is worth the price. Believe me.

One mild disclaimer: espousing the principle of freedom of expression, I refuse to censor anyone, so for those who take umbrage at the very occasional naughty word: read selectively.

 

UCN: One of the more interesting things about you is that you quit writing this year.
Jeremy McComb: I was just so frustrated. With everyone from managers, record companies, publishing companies – when I went to meetings, at the end of each meeting it would be: “Well, we really, really like what you’re doing. Just keep writing.” That was all it ever was. Just keep writing. It was endless frustration, causing panic attacks and anxiety. When I was up in the northwest at the end of last year, trying to get away from Nashville for a few days, I had to figure out what was causing the frustration and it was writing. So, I thought ‘I’m going to quit and see if it’s something that I can live without doing.’ I hadn’t not written since I was 13 so I decided to stop and see what happened… And it was great! *smiles* It took a few weeks to tell other writers I wasn’t booking any new appointments. I just needed space. Actually I just wrote my first new song a week ago.

UCN: How did that feel?
JM: It felt great! And it felt great being excited just doing one. If I was having to fill a quota for a publishing company it would be difficult right now. I just became incapable of bullshit, you know. Sitting in a room with someone I didn’t know or didn’t like, or write an idea I didn’t know or like. It just seemed like everyone wanted to get into a room to write about a back road, and I just didn’t want to write that.

UCN: You said about the new record you were no longer afraid of being open and honest. As a music fan, that’s what I am drawn to. I am sure you could write a song about riding in a truck down a back road and drinking a cold beer. But if you’re not invested in that lyric, as a listener, I am going to pick up on that.
JM: Of course. It’s just become such a cliché. And I grew up on a farm, on a dirt road, raising cattle, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, in the mountains, in trucks. I don’t need to sing about it… I found myself writing these kinds of songs with people who were living in condos downtown, and I just… *throws up hands* I just got tired of it. I needed to get back to listening to music rather than writing. I turned off the radio and pulled out the old music I hadn’t listened to in a long time, and got back into the people who really made me want to write.

UCN: And those people are?
JM: It differs depending on the stages of my life. When I was a kid I was listening to a lot of Marshall Tucker Band. And also Irish Rovers. It sounds funny to say that, but they’re folk singers and folk had a huge impact on me. I think people who haven’t heard me before will hear me leaning a lot more that way now. I was listening to a lot of Shawn Mullins, a ton of Ryan Adams. His Ashes and Fire record blew my mind. I was listening to songwriters like Jim Croce. I turned the TV off and just listened to music. I just didn’t have anything to say.

UCN: I tend to think that because life is always happening, one never really runs out of something new to write about.
JM: But I did. Well, I guess I ran out of passion to talk about it. There was just nothing to say that I felt like I hadn’t said…

UCN: Or other people hadn’t said.
JM: Yeah, and if I couldn’t give it a new twist, or if I couldn’t write it like me, I just didn’t want to write it like everybody else and hope Trace Adkins or somebody else would cut it. I just had to stop. I had to listen.

UCN: One of the songs you’ve singled out as being totally honest is ‘Unstable.’ Was that a decision, or did you write it and then realized it had been so true?
JM: I wrote that with my buddy Rick Huckaby. Me and him always write real stuff. It might not end up on my record, or his record, or anybody’s record, but it’s always real. Whatever we’re talking about, it’s real at that moment. We don’t sit around coming up with a storyline and say ‘well, maybe this guy does this.’ We just sit down and talk about whatever bullshit we’ve been dealing with lately. And ‘Unstable’ started as just me failing at ongoing relationships as I do. We were talking about this and I was just saying, well, I’m not insane. *smiles* I know what I’m doing, I’m not crazy but I am unpredictable. I have mood-swings and anxiety and self-doubt and all that defines who I am on any certain day. So, Rick said “Man, you ain’t crazy, you’re just unstable.” And I thought, ‘yeah, that’s who I am’. I don’t remember which one of us came up with the line about California, but saying ‘I’m like the dirt in California’, I love that line and everything it says. It can be beautiful and you can build great things on it, but there’s always a chance the ground will shake and swallow up your beautiful house.

UCN: What you just described, walking that fine line between sanity and unstable, I think you’ll find that more with really creative people. You almost have to exist on that line to do what you do.
JM: Yeah, I think so. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a really creative, artistic writer…well, I’ve never heard Ryan Adams come out and say “I’m super happy about everything, I’m totally content.” I remember Willie Nelson was asked about writing once and he said hadn’t been writing much lately. He was asked why and he said “I just couldn’t stay that depressed, I needed a little break.” I don’t think you’re ever really cool with where you’re at. I think there’s always something you’re missing, which is why you start writing in the first place. I originally started writing because a girl didn’t want to be with me…and continued writing because of many girls who didn’t want to stay with me. *smiles* You then start looking into the river of things to write about, other than self-doubt. I guess you’re always kind of searching for whatever will fill the hole. I think there’s always a hole.

UCN: The first time I heard that song it made me smile. It made me think of my self-imposed rule I’ve not broken: never get involved with a musician.
JM: *laughs loudly* Yes! Exactly! That’s good. *smiles*

UCN: And next time someone calls me on it, I’m going to play them that song by way of explanation.
JM: Yeah, and you can say that’s why. *smiles* I mean, if you want to have a stable home life, that’s not the guy to be with. Any of us really. It can be tough, a rough road.

UCN: The honesty is moving. And why present it any other way? Why would you want to censor yourself in your songs if you don’t do that in conversation? Otherwise, there goes the creativity if you already start by limiting yourself.
JM: Right! And that’s what I needed to stop doing. If you’re trying to write hits for people, which a lot of writers are really good at in this town…well, for example, I’ve been in rooms with people whose material Trace Adkins or Keith Urban are cutting. And then it’ll be “well, we can’t write anything about booze, because they don’t drink.” And that whole way of writing as directed makes you feel kind of like a whore… I got tired of that.

UCN: I’ve been having this discussion all year, about ‘writing for the money’. I think it’s a personal choice. There’s a ton of writers here who can do it and see it as a job.
JM: Yes, and they’re great at it. And thank God, because it keeps the country format moving. Fortunately there’s a lot of people in our format who don’t write and there’s great writers out there who can craft these hits, and that’s an art in itself. Especially in the pop world, these writers and producers craft these huge hits and they write 50 of them a year. That’s amazing! I can’t do that. I don’t have that skill set. I always came more from the storytelling side of things. If that’s what you’re good at, that’s what you’re going to enjoy doing. Keith Urban has always said he really enjoys making commercial country music. There’s nothing wrong with that. And if you don’t think he makes good music, there’s arenas full of people who will disagree.

UCN: Or if you don’t like his music, there will be someone else’s that you do.
JM: Yes, of course. So why limit yourself? Do what you want to do. I think there’s a big stigma against people being successful. You hear it in Texas and other places. There are underground bands that people follow forever, then they get a record deal, put out a big record and become successful. You would think that the fans would be excited for them, but often they’re not and they get upset.

UCN: Yes, ask Pat Green.
JM: Yeah, they said he sold out.

UCN: For me, he didn’t at all, but he did get accused of that.
JM: As long as you stay yourself, you’re all right. I kind of feel like I’ve gone backwards that way. Instead of coming from the roots world into the commercial world, I feel like I started with a record deal and went backwards. It was like ‘oh, wow, this is not what I want.’ The machine is not what I am good at. I was young when we did the first record and I wanted to be on the radio. Everyone wants to be successful. If anyone wants to play your music, that’s amazing. But it was the end-all-be-all, you know, CMT and GAC and staying in that machine. From the outside looking in, as a young artist, it was all I wanted, but once I got in there I thought ‘I don’t want this, I don’t want to do this.’ It became less about the art and more about how many friends you had on MySpace. And I just thought ‘Damn…’

UCN: This isn’t why I’m here.
JM: Yes, that’s not why I’m here. It took some time and some maneuvering to figure out how to get back to where I’m finally back at, I think.

UCN: Do you think it’s a good thing you had the record deal early on rather than being the other way around? Now, you early on found out which path you didn’t want to pursue.
JM: I think if I had the deal now, I would be less compromising about certain things about me. It’s so hard to tell, because if I didn’t do it before I probably would have always wondered ‘what if…’ I feel like I am on my own path. I don’t know what it is yet. I don’t know where the music is coming from or is going to go. I feel like an indie guy. Maybe my stuff sounds a little more commercial than some of the other indie guys out there but I don’t think that dumbs down the music.

UCN: No, certainly not with your lyrics! After first listening to the record, the song I latched onto first was ‘She Doesn’t Sing.’ And then, proving the point that listeners connect with honesty, I find out it’s a true story.
JM: Yes, it is.

UCN: And adding to my connecting with the song, I have been the woman in that song.
JM: Oh, and I think a lot of women have. They get to the point where they’re done putting up with shit. They come to a point where they realize they’re not cool with a situation anymore and you find the strength to get out of things sometimes from music. I have been in a weird place, going through this transition. This is all I’ve done my entire life, all I’ve ever wanted to do was write songs and play music. I’m doing it for a living and it’s incredible. Then I stopped writing and it was like I don’t know who I am anymore, I don’t know what I want. And that went to every facet of my life. It’s tough, especially on the people who are around you and have been with you through a lot. I don’t know if it’s a 1/3 life crisis… *smiles* It was definitely a time where I was really searching for an answer and couldn’t find one. Everything I’d known was wrong or different. I put her through a lot. I woke up one morning and I heard her singing. I had never heard her sing before and literally the first thing that popped into my mind was ‘she doesn’t sing.’ So I listened for a minute and the next song that came on was ‘Break Down Here,’ which I kind of hinted at in the lyric by saying ‘coming through the wall/loud and clear/it’s breaking down right here.’ In a weird way I was really proud of her because I kind of felt like she was about to tell me to kiss her ass and roll, which she should have. I’m glad she didn’t, but she should have. *smiles*

UCN: That’s someone who can’t find the words, but who found a song to speak for her.
JM: Right.

UCN: I think that’s something that’s universal, everyone will have songs like that. And not just in relationships but in life in general. I think that’s where a lot of the power of music comes from.
JM: Absolutely. I agree 100%.

UCN: When you write something that personal, you know that the person in the song is going to know all your feelings when she hears the song. There are some fantastic and astonishingly personal records out there about a specific person like Maroon 5’s Songs about Jane, Adele’s 21. Do you ever think about that aspect while you’re writing or do you just need to write the song regardless?
JM: I was hyper aware of it for ‘She Doesn’t Sing’ because it’s so obvious. I was a little worried about what the repercussions would be if I ever recorded it. People would want to know about the song, and I would have to tell the story. You don’t really want to put yourself in an unfavorable light but I was being an asshole and I was hard to live with. It was a rough time for me and it made it twice as rough on her. As a musician there’s only a few things I know how to do and that’s play and drink and write. That’s what I do when I have a hard time. So with that one, yes, I was sensitive to it. With ‘Easy as Breathing’, which is about the same girl, I wanted to write a song that was really more pillow talk. You know, where you wake up on a Saturday morning and let your guard down and say these things. I would never do that, but I want to. I have a fantasy of doing that, of being that guy who can be Keith Urban. Or Rick Huckaby. *smiles* I’ve been pretty closed when it comes to that stuff, other than writing. I feel like when you’re in a good place and talking about real stuff, it’s easy to write about it. If you’re in a tough place, which I was for some of this record, it’s tougher because you know that people are going to want to know.

UCN: You know you’re actually going to have to talk about it.
JM: Right. Or that the person you’re talking about it might not enjoy this. I still don’t know how she feels about ‘She Doesn’t Sing’. I’ve never really got an opinion one way or the other.

UCN: It’s interesting that you’re so aware of not being able to be that guy, except if you’re writing. Do you feel like you need to create a character through which you can then say those things?
JM: Yeah, I think so. You know, I’m kind of ‘charmingly off-color’ as someone once put it. *smiles*I really wish I could be like the super-gentlemen you see in the Gene Autry movies. Or guys like Brad Paisley or Michael Bublé. But I’m just not that guy. I struggle to watch my language.

UCN: I hate censorship so say whatever you want!
JM: *smiles* I’m a little rough around the edges but I’m a good person. I’m compassionate and care about people. I’m genuinely happy for people who achieve great things. But I do feel like I would like to be that guy sometimes, and I think ‘Easy as Breathing’ was my way of saying that. I’ve got some songs that are a little more me, you know, with a little arrogance in pick-up lines. If it can come off sweet and funny, I’d rather do that than sappy.

UCN: I often get accused of not liking love songs, which isn’t true; I love them. But I just don’t like the sappy ones.
JM: Yeah, me neither.

UCN: That stuff doesn’t work on me and something like ‘Easy as Breathing’ is a nice middle ground for that. It still says everything a love song should say but without all the clichés.
JM: And the thing in the song is that, you know, if we do fight, we’ll get over it. Because you know that’s going to happen.

UCN: Yes, it doesn’t present perfect love because that’s not how life is, and I like that the song acknowledges that.
JM: It’s about finding the little perfect moments that get you to the next one. I look for those moments a lot.

UCN: One of the songs you cut gave me an opportunity as far as looking at language goes, ‘Sugarcane.’ I first heard it from Rick, then from Chris [Nathan, who co-wrote the song with Huckaby] and now you. It’s very subtle but there are three different lyrics which create three different characters.
JM: Really? I wasn’t even aware of that.

UCN: Well, the most interesting example to me is after the line ‘I’d never think of leaving’, Rick sings ‘I could never find a reason,’ Chris changed it to ‘you’d never give me a reason,’ and you made it ‘I’d never have a reason.’ Now, that’s interesting to me! The guy in Rick’s song actually looks for a reason, which says quite a bit all by itself, while the guy in Chris’s version is more secure.
JM: This is really interesting! I had no idea! You know, I think it just came out that way and I think I still prefer it that way with ‘I’d never have a reason.’

UCN: It’s the most neutral of the three.
JM: This could have just been a subconscious thing and it’s really interesting that you pick that out. I think any relationship, whether a girlfriend, or family relationship or friendship, any of them that got weird and ended, I don’t think it was anybody’s fault but mine. So it’s interesting to me that I made this change to the lyric…

UCN: There are a few more differences between the three versions and things like that make me go ‘tell me about that.’ This song in particular gives me the chance to talk to three different people and discuss this.
JM: You’re right, it’s really interesting. When I first heard the song, I fell in love with it. Chris’s is a lot more soul, mine is more a Rolling Stones meets The Beatles type of song, which is weird because I don’t really listen to a lot of either. It just felt right, it’s fun and it’s just fun to sing.

UCN: It’s fun to listen to! And for me, that’s a hit song. I don’t care if it’s not on the radio. That’s a hit.
JM: Yes, for me too, definitely a hit song.

UCN: What makes a song a hit song? With this one, I don’t have to hear it, if I just think about it, then the rest of the day it’ll be *sings* ‘every day I wake up/I feel the sun shining on my face.’ Is it about being catchy?
JM: It’s just so well-written! There’s one line that killed me, I’ll never forget it. Rick was singing it one night and the line was ‘I would dig a hole to hell and fight the flames.’ And I was just like ‘oh…come on…!’ *smiles* And then ‘if the devil shackled me I’d break his chains.’ And it’s obviously a sexy song…

UCN: Oh yeah, it’s full of innuendo.
JM: I just loved it. And there’s the progression from the minor chord into that line. That’s the reason I cut it. I just love that line. You know, Rick Huckaby pisses me off with how good he writes! *laughs*

UCN: Something you said earlier reminded me that another songwriter once told me something kind of disturbing. He said that at some points in his life he actively caused drama so he could write.
JM: Yep, I do it all the time.

UCN: It went as far as to sabotage relationships to get to that place from which he could write.
JM: I’ve done it.

UCN: That’s…incredible. And once you realize you’re doing it, then what?
JM: It’s usually too late. I’ve literally put myself in awful situations, totally knowing what I was doing. Breaking hearts, promises, all that.

UCN: And this is with writing in mind? Like ‘ok, this relationship’s going ok, now let’s blow it up so I can write’?
JM: Yeah, with stuff that you know maybe wasn’t going to work out anyway. I’ve had relationships solely based on how I wrote at the beginning of them. I’d think ‘hey, this is great, we’re going out, doing dinner and having a great time,’ and I’d write a ton of songs; good, happy, up-tempo songs. Then you run out of happy songs because how many things can you write about with this one relationship? And most of the time, those kind of hard-hitting relationships that invoke those feelings and cause great songs, the relationship can’t take the drama. It will be based on physical attraction and lust, you know, the things you write about. As soon as that gets in there, it’s just the seed. Then I’d look back at the songs I’d written and think ‘Here’s how I felt about this a month ago, and now it’s just weird.’ So, yes, I’ve definitely done that… And then thought about it afterwards thinking ‘yeah, I caused all that.’ This goes back to what I was saying with the line ‘I’d never find a reason,’ every relationship in my life, if I’m no longer in touch with someone now, I’d say 98% of that is on me. Sometimes it was a conscious decision of ‘I’m not going to do this anymore.’ There have been people in my life who never did anything wrong, but I would find a way to screw it up to write about it.

UCN: That would actually make an interesting song; to write about that from where you are now and write about what you’ve done.
JM: Yeah…it would be. I never thought about that until you said it. That could be interesting.

UCN: When that writer first told me that, my reaction was one of ‘you can’t be serious, no one in their right mind would do that!’, but he said ‘oh, you’d be surprised!’ *laughs*
JM: Oh yeah! *laughs* You know, I feel like I should be paying you for being my psychologist today… *smiles*

UCN: *laughs* Well then, let’s talk about your childhood. You mentioned you started writing when you were 13.
JM: Yes, I started writing poetry when I had my first heartbreak. I didn’t leave my room for about three days, didn’t go to school and my parents were worried.

UCN: I’m starting to see why you like Twilight… *laughs* You actually did the whole teenage angst thing!
JM: Exactly. *smiles* Teenage angst is the reason I write songs. It was tough for me. I started writing poems and then when I started putting them together with the guitar, it opened up a whole new world of trouble for me!

UCN: And then you realized that was a good way to get girls’ interest…
JM: Yes! *laughs* It’s amazing, because the reason you start playing guitar is because you can’t get them, and then when you start playing you can get all kinds of them. But they’re not necessarily the kinds you want to have… *smiles* It certainly gets you a lot of attention. I was not popular in school. I was kind of a geek, didn’t care about school work and just wanted to play music. My grades were terrible. I left school and started playing honky tonks when I was 16. When I go back home now, I sell out my shows, and people who didn’t want to talk to me then are coming to see me. It’s cool, you know, it’s a little validation for having stuck to my interest. I don’t mean this in a ‘How Do You Like Me Now’-way, but it’s nice to have them come up to me and tell me “man, I’m super-excited for you, congratulations.”

UCN: You mentioned the teenage angst is why you started writing. Do you feel like you still tap into that?
JM: Yes, completely. Now it’s just adult-angst. *smiles* It’s just a whole other set of issues. Instead of it being girls in high school and it not working out, now it’s girls and, well…being a musician. *smiles*

UCN: You didn’t enjoy the scheduled writing sessions, but did you learn any valuable lessons from them?
JM: I learned a lot about writing and about writing with other people. While I didn’t enjoy the 10-5 office hours, I appreciated the process. I never thought ‘I fucking hate this; I don’t want to do it.’ It was more wondering ‘why am I writing?’ Am I writing for other people? No one was pitching my music so why was I just writing? Obviously, if you do something more it’s going to make you better at it, but I felt like writing every day you are also going to write a lot of crappy songs. Often with great writers. For every 40 songs you write, you’ll write a great one. What I appreciate most is having met the guys I now enjoy writing with: Travis Howard, Rick Huckaby, Keesy Timmer. Without going through that process, I wouldn’t have known how great they are to write with. For my next record, I plan to only write with about four people.

UCN: For the people who don’t know, what is such a scheduled writing session like?
JM: You get there about 10.30am, to a really sterile room with a couch, maybe a piano. You sit down and it’s just “Hey man, how are you? I’m Jeremy. Where are you from? So how do you know the person who set this up?” Then you exchange ideas a little bit until someone goes “oh cool, let’s write that.”

UCN: What about the sessions where you decide to write about something and it just doesn’t work?
JM: It happens. Usually you’d say something like “look, it’s our first time writing together, we’ll get this thing next time.” But then I might go home and think ‘I’m never going to write with him again.’ It’s weird; it’s like being in an arranged marriage for four hours.

UCN: Well, as you were talking I was thinking it’s kind of like being set up on a blind date.
JM: Yes, sometimes you get together and you feel there’s good chemistry there, sometimes there isn’t, but you get along and grab a beer and will write again later. And sometimes you think ‘Man, I’m never going back to that room ever again! And I’m going to go burn the clothes that I wore trying to write this song!’

UCN: *laughs* There can be be so much pressure on you guys when you’re in a publishing deal. When you have that drive to make art and be creative, how do you square that with yourself?
JM: I don’t know. I couldn’t balance it. It was probably one of the main sources of being frustrated for me. Nothing could come 100% naturally because you’re always under the gun for something. I never had an anxiety attack in my life before I moved here. And then suddenly it went to ‘I need medication because I’m going to have a fucking heart attack!’ With record deals you then have to deal with recoupment and what you owe them for making records. I’m a hillbilly from the northwest, and then I’m getting statements that say “so far we’ve put $800,000 into your career,’ which I know I owe back, and ‘you have to write 25 songs for us by this date.’ I just…I couldn’t take it. Some people can really balance that and it’s why I think there are so many people here that are so good at writing for others. A week ago, when I wrote the first song since my break, it was with a good friend of mine, Keesy Timmer. He said “here’s what we’re going to get through today: we’re going to write a song you’re going to leave here feeling good about.” There was no pressure. It was the first song in almost a year, so if I go write a shitty song after that, I might think ‘I’m not ready yet.’ But we wrote a great song and he eased me back into it. The next day I called Rick and said “I’m ready, let’s find a few days to start writing my next record.”

UCN: Was there ever a point where you thought ‘I’m never doing this again’? Did you always see it as a break or not?
JM: In the beginning I was just very much against it. And I know I missed some great writing opportunities, people who I had been waiting years for to be able to write with, which may never come back around. It was more a test to see if I could live without doing it. I thought that if I could stop doing it and it didn’t bother me, then I don’t need to be doing it anyway.

UCN: Well, I said before that ‘She Doesn’t Sing’ was my favorite song, but this was only true until I discovered the hidden track. It’s just extraordinary…
JM: Thank you.

UCN: I mean, talk about an honest lyric! And you recorded this at home on your computer?
JM: I wrote that right at the beginning of the year, when I was going to quit. I was done. I felt like it was over. I was in the living room one day and that song just kind of fell out. I had just gotten off the road and I was super hoarse. I could barely talk and I was in an awful mood. I felt completely broken down about what the hell I’d been doing with my life for the last seven years. I have a teenage daughter now who was a little girl when I left and I felt like I wasted all that. So I wrote the song called ‘Breaking, Folding and Fading.’ I wrote it, sang it, played it and put it on my MacBook, you know, like the way you do a work tape. I haven’t played it since. I almost didn’t record it because I thought ‘this is just a piece of shit.’

UCN: You must have been in a very dark place to not consider that to be a good song…
JM: I just couldn’t get out of my own way. I recorded it and a few days later played it for my girlfriend. She had been telling me to just go make one record just for me; to go make the record I bitched about not being able to make. She told me to go do it and said “and then if you still want to quit, then quit.” So I started the process and played her that song. She hit the floor really and she said “you have to put that on your record!”. I told her I didn’t want to record it and she goes “no, no, put it on there just like that!”

UCN: Well, thank her from me for saying that; the song is amazing.
JM: I will. *smiles* I was just like, I’m hoarse, it’s out of tune, it’s on my MacBook and you can hear me hit the space bar at the end of the recording. But as we were making the record, it became apparent that I had come full circle from that song. That song had been the end, and then saying ‘I want to make music again’. I became a fan of me again, not just as a musician but as a human being. I had put all my self-worth into what I was doing up until that point. So if something failed, it wasn’t just ‘oh, the CD didn’t do well,’ it would be that I wasn’t a good person because of it. Once I got through all that and then had that song, I decided to put it on there. It is the most talked about song when people ask me about the record. They ask me to play it and I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t know it. I only played it once.

UCN: I think that adds to it; knowing that it came from that moment which was simultaneously the end and the beginning of something. The song only exists in that one moment in time, I actually like that.
JM: I don’t know if I’ll ever play it again. I was just a moment of total honesty.

UCN: Are you able to do that on purpose? In a writing session, how do you take yourself to a vulnerable place, especially with someone who you may have only met a few times? It’s one of the most fascinating aspects of co-writing for me, is writers sharing some really personal stuff.
JM: Very personal, yes! I think there’s kind of like a writers’ code of silence. Whatever happens in the room, stays in the room. Especially when you’re writing tough songs, about cheating or leaving, with feelings like that flying around the room, it can get very personal. Then again, if I’m with someone I just met, I’m probably not going to write an ‘Unstable’ or ‘She Doesn’t Sing.’ I save ideas for the guys I know, where there’s no judgment and there’s nothing lingering.

UCN: Do you then find that, when you’re writing with Keesy or Rick, you tend to categorize and take different kind of ideas to each of them and say ‘this is an idea I only want to write with Keesy?’
JM: Yes, very much so. Rick and I wrote a song called ‘Wild and Reckless’ and I was listening to it the other day and noticed it’s ‘Unstable’ with different words. I think it starts off with ‘I ain’t for everyone, baby/I’m a ride you might not want to take.’

UCN: That does cover the same ground.
JM: But then it’s ‘but if you stand on the edge of my love/it’ll take your breath away.’

UCN: Damn, that’s a good…
JM: But when I listened to it I thought ‘Shit, it’s ‘Unstable’.’ But that’s what Rick and I write together.

UCN: That reminds me of something. Have you ever heard Jack Ingram’s Acoustic Motel?
JM: I live on it! I text Jack at least couple of times a year about that record.

UCN: Really?! That’s exciting for me. So few people I know love it as much as I do!
JM: I have worn that record out.

UCN: Oh, I get that. I’ve put the entire thing on repeat for a whole day. I just adore that record! And you know there’s this bit on there where he says “I’ve got three songs to play you tonight, and it’s going to take two hours.” It’s the idea of ‘Unstable’ and ‘Wild and Reckless’ really being the same song.
JM: Yes, and like Jack says on the record, you find yourself writing the same song over and over, thinking that if only you can write it perfect enough, it’ll work out.

UCN: So it’s about chasing the one perfect expression?
JM: Of that one feeling, yes. Jack is just…you know, I’ll tell you a story about Jack Ingram. I was playing in a band in the northwest and working as a music director at radio. I was playing his music way before he was even doing much in Texas. We brought him up to do a show and I took him to my favorite bar in the world. I wanted to move to Austin because it seemed that was where everything was happening, you know. Pat Green was happening and it was the new revolution. I told him I wanted to move and he says “There’s a plane leaving in the morning, you could be on it.” His point was ‘if you don’t go now, you’ll never go, and you’ll wonder 30 years from now ‘why didn’t I go to Austin?” I didn’t move the next day. Fast forward four years, when I was living in Austin, I wrote a song called ‘Tell Jack I Made Austin.’

UCN: *laughs* That’s perfect!
JM: I told him about it too. Ingram was a huge influence on me…

UCN: He is one of my favorite writers.
JM: Ingram, Ryan Adams, Radney Foster, Shawn Mullins. You know, Todd Snider, guys like that, when I look at them I think ‘that’s what I want to be doing.’ I would rather play listening rooms and small theaters for the rest of my life than ever have a #1 hit.

UCN: I like hearing that.
JM: I don’t need Billboard to make me feel good about myself. As long as I can play, I will be happy. As long as I can continue to write the way that I want to write, it’s just so nice. It’s so nice to be inspired again.

UCN: Well, it opens you up to working without too much pressure. There’s many people here in town, Marcus Hummon and Jeffrey Steele are the first two names that come to mind, of whom everyone thought they’d have these fabulous performance careers. It didn’t happen, for various reasons, but then they got these amazing songwriting careers and I actually think they got lucky that way.
JM: Yes, very lucky! You know, there’s still a picture of Jeffrey Steele on the side of the [Bridgestone] Arena. It always baffled me. They’ll put him on the side of the arena, but they won’t put him on the radio… I mean, what the fuck?!

UCN: *laugh* Well, you know corporate radio.
JM: Of course. Steele got a huge writing career and I think he’s got the best of both worlds. He can play the small theaters forever, and sing all these huge hits he wrote. You can play for people who really love music, and the money thing is well taken care of with all these hits. It’s a career I would kill for; it’s an enviable life. He can just write the great country music smashes, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t mean it’s worth any less than, say, Guy Clark.

UCN: Some songs may have been with the eye on commercial value but then songs like ‘What Hurts the Most,’ that’s just stuff that needed to come out; that’s got nothing to do with money.
JM: Of course, and when he plays it, it’s almost an indie rock song. But I’m sure writers like that do decide to just screw around and write some stupid songs.

UCN: I know a writer here who had been writing really deep stuff, he was just in that phase, but with little result. One day he got together with a guy and just said ‘you know, today I don’t want to go deep. Let’s write something fluffy and commercial, and just as shallow as we can make it.’ And that song gets cut by a really big artist!
JM: Well, of course, that’s what happens. But there are new country superstars now who I think are really plugged into the great writers. Blake Shelton is one of them; Miranda Lambert is super tuned in. They’re tuned into guys like Adam Hood, Dave Barnes, Travis Howard. There are artists now who are tuned in and who step outside of the usual five writers who are writing the Top 10 right now. There’s nothing wrong with writing for the Top 10, but it wasn’t my journey. I haven’t found yet where it leads. Now, with this record, here’s finally who I get to be and we’ll see where it goes.

UCN: And I think that’s a great statement to end this on. Thank you so much for your time and honesty, this was really interesting!
JM: Thank you! This was really fun for me.

 

Copyright ©2011 Urban Country News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, displayed or redistributed for any purpose without permission from Urban Country News.

Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

Latest posts by Liv Carter (see all)