Songwriters Circle: Lacey Brown

12 years ago Liv Carter 1

Singer-songwriter Lacey Brown released her Let it Go EP last summer and it is a wonderfully fresh-sounding collection (you can find the review here) which put her name on my list for the Songwriters Circle interviews. With material like this, the twelfth place finalist on season 9 of American Idol clearly had a strong sense of who she is as a writer. We met up at Tracy Lawrence‘s LMG record label offices and enjoyed a conversation about songwriting; her method, her material, and her philosophies.

UCN: When did you first start writing songs?
Lacey Brown: I didn’t really start singing until I was 14, and then I was singing in church so all the songs I needed to sing were already written. It took me until I was about 19 or 20 to even start trying to write. I had always written poetry so, once I got into it, I felt I had a feel for it. But still, once I looked at a finished song I would think it was the worst material. I got really bummed about it, thinking I should be a better writer. I wrote poetry for years, have a notebook full of phrases. I even have a book filled with just pretty words I like. I ended up taking a two-year break from writing, which was the worst time of my life. Then I had someone ask me if I wrote. I said I had tried. He asked me if I wrote poetry and I said I did but had quit writing songs. And he said ‘if you can write poetry, you can write a song.’ That really simplified it for me. I think at the time I was trying to write radio hit songs, and wanting them to be general so everyone could connect to them. He asked what my poetry was about and I said they’re about small things in my life, love, trees, just the small things. He told me ‘Write a song about a tree, or about this or that, narrow your subject and stop being so broad, and write it like poetry.’ About four tries into it, I thought ‘Well, this is getting a lot better!’ *laughs* I guess I just needed to be told that if I could write simple poetry, I could write a simple song. Simple is ok too, you know.

UCN: Not just ok, but often better. I’ve heard it before from writers that if they try to be clever, or try to fit a format, it doesn’t work, but once they start writing just what they want, things improve.
LB: Yes, I think once you start clearing your mind of thinking about what other people have written in the past, or start comparing yourself to other writers – I mean, I’m just a girl from a small town in Texas. I can’t write like anybody else, I can only write what I know. Once I started writing like that, so many songs started coming to me because it wasn’t forced. What you said about trying to be clever, I don’t think my songs are all that clever.

UCN: Oh, I disagree.
LB: *laughs* I just think they’re simpler. I have a song called ‘Boy,’ that’s on the EP. It’s just about settling down with the one who’s the best for you. Saying to someone maybe we should settle down and have some babies together, that’s not really a huge thought but a lot of women have that thought – ‘why don’t we quit all the games and just settle down’. That’s a simple thought, but I found that the simpler I got, the more general it can be.

UCN: I think it doesn’t matter how it’s phrased if people can connect to the emotion behind the words.
LB: Absolutely. I feel if I can just write something down, even if it doesn’t rhyme, and it’s true, and something I really believe in or I really felt before, then it’s worth putting in a song.

UCN: The rhyme is interesting because there are phrases in your work where the syllable count is off, or it doesn’t rhyme at all, but it still works as it still fits with the melody. Does that happen organically?
LB: I never get very technical as far a syllable count or making each verse the same length, or the breaks being the same. There’s a lot of inconsistency in my music but I find it makes it more interesting. I don’t write pop music; it doesn’t have to be verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus every time. I have committed myself to being a lot more open about this and letting things breathe more. ‘Love Is a War’ has four solos in it, I think, and doesn’t have a lot of lyric. It’s gritty and full of mandolin. That’s not intentional but once we got to cutting it, we gave it a lot of time to breathe and we had a lot of time to think ‘what if we did this with the song, or this?’ I want the song to be interesting right the way through.

UCN: You’re ok with playing with a song until it feels right. ‘Love Is a War’ especially made me wonder about when you write, do you hear the whole song, production and all, or do you think about that afterwards?
LB: That song is a little bit different. It was a co-write with my producer and his first instrument is mandolin. I presented him with the melody and said I wanted it to be a story where the love is wrong. You shouldn’t fall in love with a wanted man. So I think it was different because we already knew we wanted it to be very instrumental. But ‘Boy’ and ‘Day to Day’ came to me as I was driving. The whole song at once, in like 10 minutes. I think each song is different. There’s a song I’ve been writing the last week and a half that I’m halfway through. But I think the ones that come to me so fast are my favorites. They’re the ones I don’t want to change much about. I don’t have a set time to write, and no set structure. I wish I could be more structured.

UCN: Do you need a catalyst to write about something? A writer once told me she needs something to happen in the present to remind her of what happened to her in the past, and then she can write about that experience.
LB: Emotion is my biggest catalyst. I remember for about a year I had no love interest in my life. I was writing the best love songs then because I wanted to feel in love. Does that make sense?

UCN: Yes, yes, and that’s interesting. Writing from what you wish you had.
LB: In that year, I learned what it felt like to want love, to need it and to draw from somebody and have a real give-and-take relationship. I felt like I was giving to all these friendships I had instead of to a love interest. In that year I wrote the best love songs I’ve written. But then, a year later I’m in a relationship and I can’t write a good love song to save my life!

UCN: Is that because then it suddenly becomes personal? When you write fantasy songs you can stand outside of it and write about just ‘your someone’, but when you actually have someone, suddenly every time you say ‘you’ it’s a real person?
LB: Probably. For me, the deepest, darkest emotions tend to be my catalyst. ‘Let it Go,’ the single right now is about divorce. I think a lot of people relate to that because a lot are from broken families. Or if they don’t know it’s about divorce they’ll relate because of a break-up. I wrote that when my parents were getting divorced. It was a very real feeling for me, and I think I was a little obsessed with that feeling then. I had so much to draw from. It was the same that year I didn’t have a love interest in my life; I was so focused on ‘I want a boyfriend’ that it was all I could think about. Maybe my biggest catalyst is being so focused on a certain feeling.

UCN: So it’s about themes in your life almost. Have you ever heard Jack Ingram‘s  album Acoustic Motel?
LB: Yes. It’s really, really good.

UCN: There’s a part where he talks about writing about the same things, and he says he has three songs to play and it will take two hours.
LB: *laughs* Yes, exactly.

UCN: You also seem to have several themes in your life to write about. When it comes to format, I noticed that ‘Day to Day’ is the only song not written in direct address.
LB: That’s the only song intentionally not written as direct conversation. I thought it would change up the atmosphere of the EP. Most of what I write is conversational. I think it pulls the listener in a little more and gives them a little more responsibility to listen to the whole song. If you’re telling a story, it would be rude for someone to walk away in the middle of it. So if a song tells a story, they’re going to want to listen to the whole thing. ‘Day to Day’ really tells the story of what are your priorities. I was looking around one day and thought ‘that family, their dad works non-stop because he wants to set a good example for his kids, but the real influence would be if he spent more time with them and play with them, or be a good husband to their mother in front of them.’ There are four different instances in the song that talk about priorities. Then I started thinking about how I want to have my priorities right and how I want to fill my life full of life, you know. I want to have great kids someday who look up to me; I want to be able to give my heart away to my husband all the way and always be in love with him. I know if I do that I will have a full life. That’s where the song came from but I also wanted it to be a little inspirational. I have nieces and nephews who are going to listen to my songs and I want them to be inspired. They are who I think about when I write. When I am deciding to record something I will think ‘am I going to be embarrassed if my 5-year-old niece listens to this song?’

UCN: That’s a really interesting perspective. It’s almost about legacy, measuring it against your 5-year-old niece, showing her about having a good philosophy to live by.
LB: I don’t think I have a skewed philosophy about love and life; I’m not one to get into get into huge conversations about that. I believe in looking at life as something simple, and not making things harder than they should be.

UCN: Which in itself is a good philosophy to have.
LB: Right. And it’s not simple where things don’t matter; things really do matter. We’re here to make things matter, but we’re not here to stress about everything that matters.

UCN: That’s what I find in your lyrics. They are free of drama.
LB: Yes! *laughs*

UCN: I agree with you that the biggest ideas are the simplest; settling down with someone, living a full life.
LB: Yes, that’s like the biggest decision of your life!

UCN: I like that this is in your material. The simplest things are the biggest, and there is no added drama to make the song or story bigger than it is.
LB: My friends and my family will be the first to tell you ‘Lacey has zero drama.’ *laughs* I mean, I will help a friend if there’s a situation in her life, but if it’s unnecessary drama like ‘he said-she said’, even in high school I thought ‘I can’t be around that’ and it’s not in my songs. That’s why I think ‘Love Is a War’ is interesting. It’s not an affair, or where the father said she couldn’t date the man, and it’s not scandalous because no one knows.

UCN: It’s just her private thoughts.
LB: Yes, it’s her private thoughts about her being in love with a man after she first saw his face on a wanted poster. She knew he was wanted and she knew he was handsome! *laughs* She decided that she was going to love him anyway, even if she knows it’s not going to last as he’s going to go to prison eventually. It’s not right but the drama doesn’t come into the storyline. It’s just her thoughts; it doesn’t even bring his thoughts into it. So you’re right, drama free! *laughs*

UCN: I’m the same, I can’t imagine inviting extra drama into my life.
LB: Yes, like those Real Housewives shows. They stay on my TV for about two seconds! I just can’t do it.

UCN: As you talk, I hear a lot about intuition and wanting to express something. How do you want people to experience your songs?
LB: I want them to experience it like you would a good romantic movie. You watch this theatrical love story, it’s a happy ending and they’re together in the end. Maybe there was a bit of a struggle but that’s life, and, in the end, let’s make it a happy ending. I want people to come to my shows and have that feeling of hope that there is going to be a great ending in every song, every story, and even in their own life. Every day should be filled with hope. I think people often get bogged down with the details of life and I want them to take away from my shows the mystery and wonder of life. ‘Why are we here?’ ‘Why am I so drawn to this person?’

UCN: And you say you don’t do philosophy! *laughs*
LB: *laughs* Well, I don’t feel like I do.

UCN: You don’t sit here quoting Sartre or Socrates but this is philosophy; asking those simple-yet-important questions.
LB: I just want people to have beautiful lives and enjoy every moment. I want to write songs that inspire people to stop being so serious and stop being bogged down and tormented about little details that are so much easier to deal with when you look at the big picture. We’re here to be free, to love each other, to be good people and to hopefully get something done. Some people might think ‘Well she’s 26, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. She’s not married and doesn’t have kids.’ I know it’s not always easy but at the end of the day it’s about loving what you have right now and not always dreaming about the next big thing and stressing yourself out. Maybe that’s a lot to take away from one concert… *laughs*

UCN: *laughs* But it still is a good position to come from.
LB: Well, I don’t think anything I do is going to change someone’s life, but I do think I can help and be part of that entertainment aspect of their life that helps them think like that even for a second. I love playing the more intimate venues where people are sitting comfortably and there’s time to talk about the story behind the songs. I want them to walk away thinking ‘I really felt connected with everything, I knew exactly what she was doing in every song and why she wrote each songs.’ I like explaining it because I think there’s an art in writing and I think it should be appreciated.

UCN: Definitely.
LB: I’m not saying I should be appreciated, but songwriting in general. When I go to a show I want to know why people have written things a certain way.

UCN: I recently talked to an artist about a song he wrote which I had only heard once. He was amazed by how much I understood about the song and commented about how I really must have listened. I told him I was surprised that he was so surprised. Isn’t it normal to really listen to songs? And he went ‘No…’
LB: *laughs* No, it’s not normal.

UCN: For me it’s a given to really listen and think about a song. If someone just likes your melodies but isn’t very deep about your songs, would that bother you?
LB: No, I can appreciate that for sure because I think if they were supposed to get more out of it, then they would have.

UCN: I like that way of looking at it.
LB: Yes, because maybe all they needed was some happy music to listen to that day, and then I’m glad I could be that artist to do that. But at the same time, I think that I enjoy telling people more than they need to know about my songs. I enjoy telling them about what I was going for. I put my time into it, and if they’re at a show, they put their time into to, so they might as well get everything they can out of it. But if someone says they just like how ‘Boy’ sounds without knowing what it’s about, I’m not going to go ‘well, stop listening to my songs’. *laughs*

UCN: Or sit them down and start explaining.
LB: No, I wouldn’t. I mean, I listen to a lot of music and some might be in a different language. I don’t understand the words but I still appreciate the art and I still get something out of it. Some songs are just a melody to put people in a good mood. Music is such a big force to change your mood. But…you’re right, I do get excited when people come up to me with ‘well, what I really noticed about the lyrics in this song…’ I love it when they get it! *laughs*

UCN: One of your phrases I’ve been thinking about it ‘not my will but yours be done/I need strength to hold me here while you run.’ I love that. And I do often really look at lyrics and pick out a phrase I think doesn’t make sense or that I feel doesn’t add anything. It will always matter to me because that’s just what I go for. And I do think it’s surprising that an artist in Nashville is surprised that someone really listened to his song!
LB: I know, and especially in Nashville you would think more people would be that way!

UCN: One thing you said just made me think, do you feel you write because you want to say something, or do you feel you write to be heard?
LB: If I just needed to say things, I could write the songs down and just show them to a friend. I think most artists would feel like we want to be heard. Besides my friends and my family, music makes the most of my life. Any chance I have to share that part of my life with a new listener, my life is fuller. I want them to hear it because I feel better about myself when they hear it and like it. I think there are artists who seem to say things just because they need to get them out of their system, but I don’t think any artist would say they care nothing about being heard. I’m not an outgoing person, I was shy growing up and didn’t have a lot of friends. I was very quiet. So there is a part of me that says ‘I want to be heard.’ I can get used to being alone and not being heard, but then suddenly I will write something that I have to share because I’ve kept it hidden. I didn’t write a lot of love songs before I wrote the ones which are on the EP because I didn’t want people to know that part of my life. But then I realized I was way too secretive about what I wanted in life. There are a lot of people who want to be heard and I think it kind of represents them, too.

UCN: You’re giving other people a voice.
LB: When you write you’re not only writing for yourself. I heard this when I was on American Idol. One of the representatives told me that when you write a love song, you write it because you’re feeling those emotions. But at the same time you’re representing people in the crowd who can’t write a love song for their spouse and you’re singing what that husband wants to say to his wife. So when you’re expressing that he can say ‘Yeah, what she said.’ *laughs* Not everyone can express themselves that way.

UCN: Or maybe they’re too scared to put their feelings into their own words so they are  glad they can use yours.
LB: Right! You represent yourself with your music, but hopefully also some people in your audience who want to say the same things.

UCN: I think if you can connect to that, you can connect to your whole audience, men and women.
LB: Yes, and I don’t think I did enough of that on the EP. I think the stuff I’ve written more recently is a lot more geared toward that. The songs are a woman’s point of view and I think that’s not a bad thing as we need strong women who are heard. You want your congregation to use your music as their voice and to be helpful for them. I want to grow as an artist, I’m not a big artist right now, so I want to add the ingredient of asking if the lyrics are something this spouse wants to say to that spouse, the ingredient of is this something a person can use, and then I want to add the fun ingredient at a show. It’s a fine art to give the song everything you think it needs and then to fulfill all the other categories. I don’t want to be a format, but you always want a balance because you want to grow as an artist

UCN: And if it’s too different then it might be too out there for people to connect to.
LB: Yes, it will get too obscure.

UCN: Most artists don’t want to be the next so-and-so but everyone has people who inspired them. So who are some of the songwriters who inspired you?
LB: Willie Nelson is amazing…

UCN: Yes, and he doesn’t care about format either.
LB: Not at all!

UCN: Plus, you’re from Texas so he’s basically your President.
LB: *laughs* I would make him King of Texas if I could! *laughs* I think we have a ‘Willie Nelson for President’ poster around here somewhere; it’s really good! Other influences, I think, Dolly Parton is an amazing writer. A lot of newer artists are doing good things and the music moves forward really fast. A new sound comes along every couple of months. But the reason I like Willie Nelson is because he kept writing and writing even when deemed not good enough. He never changed. He wrote what he knew and what he was passionate about, and not just what people wanted him to write or what others expected from him. His lyrics are so beautiful to me and a long career of that is more important to me. I hope someday I can look back and say ‘I wrote a lot of songs I was passionate about and people really caught on and loved me for me.’

UCN: Everything you just said also fits for Dolly. She’ll use rhyme but only if it naturally fits; there’s no formula anywhere.
LB: Yes! Both of their material is just so simple. Maybe listening to years of that influenced me and made my writing so simple. When we were making the CD we typed out the lyrics to the songs and it wasn’t enough to fill up the booklet! *laughs* Some of the songs are so simple but they still say everything we want them to say. I appreciate that more about writers than being clever or finding a new way to look at a situation.

UCN: But that cleverness is not always a bad thing. The Craig Campbell song ‘Family Man’ had the line ‘and then it’s how many times does 17 got into 52.’ What he’s saying is ‘and then I help my kids with their homework.’ It’s a line by co-writer Jon Randall and I think it’s brilliant.
LB: That is brilliant!

UCN: Rather than simply saying ‘I help them with homework’ there’s that line about math, which is being clever about the lyrics on purpose.
LB: It works sometimes, for sure. We need a new viewpoint on some of the things we’ve been signing about for years. But at the same time, if you’re listening to something by Dolly or Willie, you think maybe those lyrics could have been said so many ways but this was the simplest way to say it, maybe even the most clichéd way to say it. But you can still think it’s the most beautiful way because it ‘s the way he would have said it if he was talking to me. Do you know what I mean?

UCN: Yes, that even when you just read the lyrics, they still work.
LB: Yes, exactly, like someone is just talking to you. If you read the ‘Family Man’ lyrics like that, it might not work.

UCN: True, you would never use a sentence like that in conversation.
LB: No, and I appreciate songs that are just conversation. I appreciate their way to write a love song and know exactly what they were trying to say because they weren’t “trying”; they just said it.

UCN: Being from Texas, it must almost be a little intimidating with so many great writers being from there.
LB: Yes, there’s so many!

UCN: Pat Green. Jack Ingram, who is one of my favorite writers. Gary Nicholson!
LB: Gary Nicholson is amazing!

UCN: Lee Roy Parnell. We could do this all afternoon! *laughs*
LB: *laughs* Yes, there are too many! It would be intimidating if it wasn’t Texas. Texas is so proud so it’s more like ‘Yeah I’m from the same state as these great writers…and I write just like them!’ *laughs* No, I can’t but you almost want to show it off a little bit. It doesn’t scare me as much as it makes me want to try harder.

UCN: That’s a good attitude. You want to add to the Texas songbook.
LB: Exactly. I want to add to it and be someone from Texas who’s worth talking about. I love being from Texas and I miss it. I also love Nashville and it’s where I need to be, but I can still make a name for Texas! Maybe it sounds silly to other people and they’ll say Texans are too prideful.

UCN: Yes, you don’t often hear someone boast “I’m from Idaho, man!” or wherever else.
LB: Yes, and why not? You should be proud of where you’re from! It’s not your choice, you were just born there, but it’s where you’re from!

UCN: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.
LB: Thank you! I had fun!

 

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Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

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