Songwriters Circle: Granger Smith

12 years ago Liv Carter Comments Off on Songwriters Circle: Granger Smith

Texas singer-songwriter Granger Smith received an education in songwriting during his time in Nashville before heading back home. With his radio-friendly version of Texas country music, he has found a way to straddle the divide between Music Row and independent music. This put him on my list for an extended conversation about songwriting.

UCN: Some have found this a difficult question: why did you start writing?
Granger Smith: I started playing guitar first, then started singing, and a few years later I started writing. It was kind of because I was playing and singing, and I’d start humming a little melody and maybe a few words come out. Eventually it gets to the point where you want to say something, and you have a utility to say it with, when you’re playing the guitar. That’s who the first song was born.

UCN: Do you remember the first song?
GS: Yes, it was called ‘Where Is She Now?’ It was about a relationship problem I was having at the time, and I started thinking about if the years when on, if I was smart about my decision about breaking up with this girl. It felt good to write it, and express myself in that way. You know, teenage boys don’t talk much and it wasn’t like I was running to mom and telling her my problems. Writing a song gave me a way to vent it out; it gave me a connection. I didn’t even want to play it for anyone, but just for me to play it for myself, it felt relieving.

UCN: That’s almost like a journal entry.
GS: Yes, exactly. All my albums, I kind of look at them as my journals, little segments of my life, where I was living and the friends I had, girlfriends I had.

UCN: How old were you when you started playing and then later writing?
GS: I started playing when I was 14, singing at 15, and writing at 18.

UCN: Was it well received in your family?
GS: It was! I was blessed, because I had some friends where it wasn’t. I was really into high school sports at the time, so I didn’t have a lot of time to devote to it. I’d be up in my room, I’d finish a song, and then I’d gather my family and go ‘Here’s a new one!’, and I’d stumble my way through it. *smiles* And usually they’d go ‘Wow!’ None of them are musicians at all. They were really amazed that I had any kind of desire to play an instrument.

UCN: When did the playing for people outside of your family come into it?
GS: I was playing a little bit before I was writing. I stumbled into this place where a friend of mine was singing, it was called the Mesquite Opry. North Texas is full of these little opries, where on Saturday nights the old people go out and they get a cup of popcorn and a coke. It’s about 150 to 200 people in a little theater. Each performer gets to sing two songs. I was watching my friend and then they asked ‘if anyone wants to audition, we’re opening auditions after the show.’ A few of my friends said ‘hey, you’ve been singing and playing!’ But I said ‘Nah,’ but the encouraged me. For some reason, I thought ‘Ok.’ I sang ‘Tequila Sunrise’ by The Eagles. That was my first time on stage with a microphone. And it was a really bad performance… *smiles* But they said ‘Ok, we’ll book you for Saturday. I came home and told my parents I was going to play there, and they said ‘What?’ *smiles* That’s when I was 15. The first date I played, just hearing the applause and seeing the lights, and that feeling when I walked up, the adrenaline was like my sporting events. It was really fun!

UCN: What about the first time you sang your own songs?
GS: When I was 18 I was playing one of those Opry nights. You usually play cover songs and that one night I brought one of mine. They normally didn’t do it but I asked them to please learn the song. So, when I went out there and they started playing it, my throat just choked up. It was such an amazing feeling to hear a band play something I wrote. It was so overwhelming I could barely sing, I was all tight. But it was a good feeling… I was blown away by that concept that I could write something, the band could play it, and I could perform it. I’ll always remember that night. And then it became addictive…

UCN: What is the thrill? The applause, or being vulnerable in the light?
GS: It’s both really. Being that vulnerable, standing there and telling a piece of your life, it’s like reading your diary to a bunch of strangers. It’s nerve-wrecking, it’s exciting, it’s gratifying, all rolled into one. But as soon as I walk off the stage I think ‘When can I do this again?’ I still get that feeling, every single night when our intro starts and the lights go down. No matter if it’s just 30 people out there or it’s sold out, I get a little tingle in my stomach. It’s a great feeling!

UCN: Your first song was a kind of journal entry. Is that still the process? Do you need something from your real life to start a song?
GS: I do, and unfortunately I will admit I’ve written so many songs which had nothing to do with me or my life, and those songs kind of become mechanical. And they kind of become forgotten. I wrote in Nashville for EMI Publishing for about four years. I’d meet a writer in an office just like this, about 10 am. A lot of times I’d meet him for the first time, we ‘d sit down and talk about his kids, and ‘where do you want to eat lunch?’, and ‘where are you from?’ Then we’d grab our guitars and he might go ‘well, I was kind of thinking of something like this,’ and I’d respond and try to match that emotion. Sometimes we’d hit it off and I was really feeling what he was saying, and I could relate. And sometimes I was just going through the motions and it became a machine. Those songs became less believable and I wasn’t as excited about those songs.

UCN: There seem to be two schools of thought about writing. There are those who can write the way you just described and be perfectly happy doing it; and there’s the other way of writing what you really want to say and what’s real.
GS: And both ways of writing can produce a great song.

UCN: Oh absolutely. I’m not saying either way is better, it’s just a different philosophy about writing.
GS: Right. I’ve always looked at it like a painting. Someone is painting a beautiful picture of a mountain scene, and they’d say ‘Hey, Granger, can you help add some tress, because you’re good at trees.’ And in the end it’s a beautiful scene. But if I go paint my own painting, I’m going to paint something from my memory, something from a vacation I took. Like Bruge in Belgium, I love that town. *smiles*I’m painting from my memory so this painting is more special to me, and it’s still just as pretty as the mountain scene.

UCN: I have actually referred to those songs as paint-by-numbers songs, because they’re forced to fit a pre-existing mold. It’s like, you gotta mention trucks, and what else have we got…catfish. *smiles*
Publicist Nicole Pope: Dirt roads!

UCN: Oh yes, dirt roads, we gotta get them in there! *laughs* I mean, if you want to write a song about that, fantastic, but to do it on purpose because you feel you have to mention all those things to be considered? I mean…no. *smiles*
GS: Yes, totally.

UCN: From listening to your songs, I think you edit quite a bit. I might be wrong about that, but you seem to know where every word goes, and it’s there for a reason.
GS: I love editing. *smiles*

UCN: See? Like I said. *smiles*
GS: It’s a passion of mine. I guess I like being a nerd, sitting at the computer, building the song, taking this layer of guitar and mixing it with the keyboard and thinking ‘yeah, that’s awesome.’ I really like that experience.

UCN: And it comes through in your music. It’s been thought about. How do you make the hard decisions when you have a really cool phrase but, if you’re honest, it doesn’t really seem to fit? How do you edit yourself?
GS: Yeah, that happens all the time. One of the best ways for me is to go ahead and record it. Then I’ll listen to it if I’m just driving around, go to the gym, go to the grocery store, and just listen, listen and listen. I’ll be listening to a verse and go ‘I don’t like that word, what’s wrong?’ Then I’ll listen to it the next day when my brain’s fresh and that word is still popping out; something is wrong with that word. So I go back and try to re-arrange that sentence or find a new phrase or a new word. Then I’ll record it again and listen to it again. That’s become my process.

UCN: Is that something you think you can be taught? If you young writer asked for advice, is this something you can explain?
GS: When young people ask for advice, I always say ‘Record yourself, all the time. Listen to it.’ You’re always not as good as you think you are when you listen back to the recording. It’ll be ‘I’m holding this vocal too long, or cutting it too short.’ But you only know that if you listen, listen, and listen. I think it’s important for songwriters to really dig into that and be a huge critic.

UCN: How has that changed over the years? Do you still see yourself in the oldest songs, is that still your style?
GS: Yes. I mean, we’re all totally different people than when we were 18, but I feel that there are root components that I still use and still do. With old records I either go ‘that was really good, that was a little bit better than I remember,’ or sometimes I think ‘that was just not good…’ I still do that. Sometimes I’ll have a brand new song and then when I listen to it I’ll go ‘is that even good at all?’, and then I listen to three records ago and wonder ‘well, that was pretty cool, why didn’t I keep that same thing?’ It’s a never ending battle with me, always wondering if I’m doing it right or wrong, if one record was better than another and why.

UCN: You were in Nashville for a few years. Why did you decide to come out here?
GS: Some publishing companies were flying down to hear me play in Texas. Warner/Chappell and EMI both offered me a publishing deal to move up here and write songs for them. I talked to them there, twice each, then flew up here and visited their offices. They both gave me their sales pitch about why I needed to go with them, about why it was ok to leave school, and I could always go back to it later. To this day, I’m happy with my decision, I know they were right. I eventually ended up finishing school and going back to Texas to pick up where I left off, but I’d gained a lot of knowledge about the business and the craft of songwriting. Older songwriters taught me how to think about lines. I’d put down a line and they’d say ‘Well, what does that really mean?’ and I’d go ‘I hadn’t thought about it that way.’ And it’d be ‘What would this mean to someone going through this?’ or ‘What would a girl think? Would she be flattered by that, or be kind of offended?’ I learned a lot, I tried to apply what I thought was good advice. My time in Nashville was beneficial and it helped mold me into who I am.

UCN: Did you feel any kind of pressure?
GS: There was a lot of pressure, a lot.

UCN: How did that make you feel?
GS: It’s tough… It turns it into a mechanical process when it’s supposed to be creative. I would get nervous. I would think ‘It’s Wednesday, I’m writing with this really big songwriter and I don’t have any ideas. I had a good one on Monday that I gave out, an ok one on Tuesday, I don’t have anything today.’ Once we were supposed to meet at 10.30 am, the other writer called at 10.40 am to cancel, and I went ‘Yes! It’s just me today,’ and I grabbed my guitar and wrote a good song. I was so excited that he canceled and after that happened a couple of times, I thought ‘I can’t do this, I can’t keep feeling this pressure.’ But I still feel pressure; I still get told ‘You should go to Nashville and hook up with these writers, and you need to get on this path and start chopping out these songs. I always get a little bit reserved about that. I like to get to know someone first, let’s go to lunch first, let’s have a beer first before we get into this room and start throwing out all these idea.

UCN: And often sessions get personal. When your co-writer wants to write about something specific about relationships and is wanting your experience with that, you want to go ‘Dude, I don’t know you.’ It’s very strange. Does it feel like that to you?
GS: Yes, absolutely. One of my favorite things about songwriting is that feeling when I finish a song of thinking ‘I think this could be a big hit.’ And 99.9% of the time, it’s not. It might not even be a great song. But that feeling is great. And usually, that happens when I am alone because I didn’t compromise anything in the song for someone else.

UCN: You used the word compromise. I do think that exists between the commercially viable and artistic integrity. If I make a little Venn diagram, then can overlap. But do you think it’s possible to write with complete 100% artistic integrity, and still produce something that Nashville, corporate country radio wants.
GS: Absolutely, yes. It’s rare, but when it does happen… Like Garth Brooks‘ ‘The Dance.’ When something like that happens, it is a smash. People love it, they can hear that in the lyrics. I can still hear that, that’s a natural co-write. You can hear it and go ‘That’s completely out of someone’s heart, someone was going through that.’

UCN: I agree it’s possible for a song every now and then, but can you keep that going as a career?
GS: No, you can’t. At some point you have to find your path and either go off into the woods in your little cabin, so to speak, or you have to come here and do it the Nashville way.

UCN: The writer I always illustrate this with is Jeffrey Steele. He can write truly heartbreaking, amazing stuff, and then he can turn around and write something like ‘Brand New Girlfriend,’ which I think is terrible.
GS: But that’s what’s awesome about Jeffrey.

UCN: Yes! I think he understands songwriting so well to the point where he can decide ‘now I’m going to write something commercial and just have fun, and then tomorrow I will write something that’s real.’
GS: It’s a balance. I constantly try to find that so I don’t have to compromise. I have a few guys I love to write with, but for the most part I like to write by myself.

UCN: You have a song called ‘Five More Minutes,’ obviously that’s real and deep.
GS: And that was just me.

UCN: But then there’s ‘Don’t Listen to the Radio,’ which makes me smile. I know it’s about when you’re broken hearted and they play love songs, but I like to think that’s good advice in general… *smiles*
GS: *smiles* Right.

UCN: Where did that idea come from?
GS: Well, you can relate to this. Someone had sent me a huge stack of demos and said ‘Listen to these songs and look for your hit.’ We were cutting a new album and people were telling me ‘We need to find your hit.’ I was listening to these songs and they’re all *sings* ‘She left me and I’m sitting here with a bottle.’ And I remember thinking ‘Geez, don’t listen to the radio if you got your heart broke! You’re gonna go insane!’ That was the idea and I wrote it.

UCN: But then with ‘Five More Minutes,’ how do you go about writing something that personal?
GS: I sat down on my couch and just wanted to write what I was feeling. I had been reading a journal that my dad had put together from my granddad, who was a pilot in WWII. I sat there with my guitar and thought ‘what’s happening right now?’ So I was thinking about my granddad. I started just writing ‘I think of my granddad in ’44,’ and started writing it just from the top. Sometimes that happens, when I start with the first line and write it like a journal.

UCN: That’s interesting, because for a song like that I would expect it to have come out of…
GS: The hook.

UCN: Yes, the idea of the five more minutes with someone. But you really just wrote what you were feeling.
GS: Yes, and ‘Sleeping on the Interstate’ was the same exact way – ‘At 4 am, a five-piece band gets REM in a Chevy van, running late, so we’re sleeping on the interstate.’

UCN: I love that opening line, by the way. I mean, I can listen to commercial songs and think they’re well-written while I personally don’t want to listen to them. That’s a different thing. But the ones I’m draw to personally, tend to be the one with lots of that type of imagery. You also use repetition in that song. Was that a decision or just that’s what the song needs.
GS: When I wrote the part I just said, that was a complete thought. Then I wrote the next few lines and to end that thought I said ‘let’s go back to that same phrase of ‘sleeping on the interstate’.’ Then I thought ‘well, maybe that’s the title.’

UCN: Oh cool, so that informed the title.
GS: Yes, sometimes the titles aren’t apparent right away. This was like that, maybe this song is about sleeping on the interstate, let’s make that the title. And then generally the chorus gets crafted because of the verse.

UCN: How do you decide between something message-driven, story-driven, or character-driven?
GS: Sometimes it’s apparent from the start and I’ll say I want to write a song about this particular girl. Sometimes it’s hook-driven, like ‘Don’t Listen to the Radio.’ And sometimes it’s melody-driven and I’ll just hum until words start falling into the melody and then it becomes a song that way.

UCN: That’s interesting, because your lyrics are so crafted. So if something is melody-driven, how do you then still ensure that the lyric is profound enough?
GS: Those take longer. What I usually do is that if I find a melody I really like, I’ll hum it or strum it into my iPhone, and then I’ll leave it alone. Then, when I’m going through these hook ideas, I’ll try to match them up with one of those melodies.

UCN: An idea that came up before is putting characters in songs to have them say things for you which you can’t say in real life. Is that something you do?
GS: Yeah, I think a lot of guys are like that. *smiles* I wrote ‘Oxygen’ for my wife, but, especially at the time, I wouldn’t have looked her in the eyes and said anything like the words of that song to her. But it was really what I was feeling.

UCN: Do you know why then it’s possible to say it in a song? Is it again about vulnerability?
GS: Well, if I’m saying it to her, I’d have to look her in the eyes and say ‘Did you know this is how I feel?’ and it would come off awkward. But if I’m strumming my guitar and singing it, I can say it in an easier way.

UCN: Do you ever on purpose create a character in a song to allow him to say something you can’t?
GS: Yes, I like to do that, and I think people should do that. We don’t have enough life to create all these albums. It would get boring if it’s only about me and what I am living. So every now and then I’ve got to step out of that. I can write from the perspective of this guy who likes to go out and cheat on his girl, or this girl broke this guy’s heart but I’m not going through that at the time. That’s where co-writes come in pretty handy. If you want a song where you want to step into this other character, maybe this other guy can help you with that.

UCN: There’s a great bit on Jack Ingram‘s Acoustic Motel album where he’s talking about being in a writing session and having a serious conversation. And then his co-writer jokes ‘Let’s write something that someone outside you and your therapist might enjoy!’ I love that. and it’s true, if the songs are only ever about us, they’d sound like the tape of a therapy session and you want it to be at least somewhat accessible.
GS: Yes, and not only for commercial purposes but also for the live show. We don’t want every song to be about us, us, us. Every now and then I want to put this other hat on and become this other guy during this part of the show. It just makes everything a bit better.

UCN: Who is your audience when you write? I think one of the main differences between the two groups of writers we talked about, is that one group will write for the record labels and the radio, and the other group writes straight to the fans.
GS: Right now I don’t have a record label so I can only write straight to the fans. Usually, what I found is that if you write straight to the fans, it would relate back to the radio.

UCN: Well, we should hope so…
GS: Yes, we should hope so. In my market it works, because radio is so fan-driven. But I have three ways of testing my songs, in this order. I like it to feel good first. Second, I like for it to be important for the way it’s said, and third, what it says. So, most important is the way it feels, the way it’s said, and what’s said. If I can do those in that order, I’m happy. Everyone wants something to feel good; that’s what gets you first. And then you don’t want them to be bland, you want them to say it in a way that’s more appealing. If I can get those three components then I’m confident the fans will enjoy that and then hopefully relate that to radio.

UCN: I can’t speak for Texas but here in town there are songs where I just know that this was someone making a decision to use certain words because that’s what radio wants, and then they’ll push it onto the fans. And some of those go to #1, depressingly enough.
GS: I’ve sat in rooms with guys with the cut sheets, where they go ‘Ok, Faith Hill is cutting this week, Kenny Chesney is cutting next month. Do you want to go for something for Kenny?’

UCN: and then it’s ‘we’re writing for him so we need these topics.’
GS: Yes, it’ll be ‘he likes the islands,’ or ‘he needs an uptempo.’ It’s crazy. And it’ll say that on the sheet: ‘Tim McGraw, need uptempo hit by April 17th.’ It’s crazy…

UCN: And if you do that, do you feel that you already start by compromising before you’ve even written a word?
GS: Absolutely! Some writers don’t have a problem with that because sometimes it works. They’ll get that cut, and it’ll go to #1. ‘How did you write this?’ – ‘We looked on the cut sheet, saw he needed an uptempo and we knew what Kenny wanted.’ I mean, there’s guys in this town…and I can’t really fault them for it, if the business side takes over a little bit.

UCN: No, of course not. I realize that when I pick at this process it often comes off as judgmental, but that’s not how I mean it at all. It’s just a different philosophy. Someone like Dallas Davidson knows exactly what he needs to do, he wrote five #1 hits last year, he clearly knows what’s going on. But he can also write really deep, meaningful stuff. It’s just that’s not the material he needs to submit to get those #1 hits. I mean, I can wish I lived in a world where that was true… *smiles*
GS: Yeah, me too! *smiles*

UCN: What are you working on next?
GS: We’re going to start on the new record in July. I do all my recording with my band at my house. We’ll use from July to November probably to go in and out of the studio in between live dates. Our latest system is that I’ll get everyone in the room, let the drummer groove a little bit, the bass player with him, and then listen to those rough recordings. Then we’ll talk about what we can tighten up and record it for real.

UCN: Do you record everyone together?
GS: We do for that part, but once we know where it’s going to go, I take individual guys and focus on just their own part.

UCN: That way of recording must give you a lot of freedom.
GS: Yes, there’s a lot of freedom.

UCN: And time.
GS: Yes, sometimes someone comes in and will say ‘I’m just not feeling it today, I’m tired. Can I come back on Tuesday?’ And then he comes back and he’s fresh, has a new approach, he’s thought about it and it sounds good.

UCN: Do you have songs already for the new record? Do you see themes developing?
GS: Yeah, I see some stuff developing. I’ve got seven or eight songs I like for it right now.

UCN: Thank you. This was great!
GS: Sure, thank you.

UCN: I can have these kinds of conversations all day long…
GS: Me too! *smiles*

 

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Liv Carter

Liv Carter

Liv is a career coach for creatives, and the people who work with them.
She holds several certificates from Berklee College of Music, and a certificate in Positive Psychology from UC Berkeley.
Her main influences are coffee, cats, and Alexander Hamilton.
Liv Carter

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